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So, do we think there is a path to using some future version of the transparent OLED's that were being shown off at CES here? If the same density can be achiev

So, do we think there is a path to using some future version of the transparent OLED's that were being shown off at CES here? If the same density can be achieved you can imagine how much simpler the entire device would get with just a transparent screen – you'd have to move the rest of the electronics into the edges but that seems very doable.

mort96 3y ago
That feels like it'd cause light bleed issues when you want it to act as a proper VR headset? Can you make transparent OLEDs which can go fully 100% opaque when desired?
- daemonologist 3y ago
  Xreal (Nreal) has a product using electrochromic glass which apparently works pretty well although doesn't quite become completely opaque; that might be an option. I think Apple isn't really interested in VR though, so they might accept some light bleed in a "just glasses" form factor Vision product.
  - mort96 3y ago
    Proper VR is an important aspect of the device. The main focus is on the "spatial" AR-style experience, but there's also a lot of focus placed on being able to be in a completely virtual environment in both the marketing materials and the OS. I don't think something which "works pretty well but doesn't quite become completely opaque" sounds good enough, especially for something whose only real advantage is possibly slightly improving how the wearer looks to others. For a different product that's glasses instead of a VR headset, sure, it might work (although I don't see why you'd want to go semi-opaque at all with glasses really, it won't be close to an immersive VR-style experience anyway?)
- wrsh07 3y ago
  At the very least there's the low tech solution of an opaque cover you put over it AR and VR have always felt like duals to me - with AR, you just put something behind it and you have VR. With VR you do passthrough video
threeseed 3y ago
Two deal breaking issues: 1) The reason that the resolution is so high on the AVP is because it uses Micro-OLED which is also known as OLED on Silicon i.e. there is a layer of silicon behind the diodes which would block the light. 2) Transparent OLED TVs required a motorised screen to put a black panel behind the display. Only options are that or electrochromatic glass. Both of which are not black enough for watching movies etc.
- KaiserPro 3y ago
  > The reason that the resolution is so high on the AVP is because it uses Micro-OLED which is also known as OLED well, its more that they managed to get them efficient enough not to melt/produce useable brightness. But the actual biggest issue is optics. You can't just slap a transparent screen where your glasses are, and be able to see an image. You need to correct the image so its focused almost at "infinite". Thats why wave guides are a thing, they (simplistically) project an image as if it was focused further away than is actually was. However, they aren't very efficient, which means you either need to dim the outside world, or overdrive your LEDs so they only last a few hours(and melt your face.) They have other issues like rainbow artifacts.

mort96 3y ago

That feels like it'd cause light bleed issues when you want it to act as a proper VR headset? Can you make transparent OLEDs which can go fully 100% opaque when desired?

daemonologist 3y ago
Xreal (Nreal) has a product using electrochromic glass which apparently works pretty well although doesn't quite become completely opaque; that might be an option. I think Apple isn't really interested in VR though, so they might accept some light bleed in a "just glasses" form factor Vision product.
- mort96 3y ago
  Proper VR is an important aspect of the device. The main focus is on the "spatial" AR-style experience, but there's also a lot of focus placed on being able to be in a completely virtual environment in both the marketing materials and the OS. I don't think something which "works pretty well but doesn't quite become completely opaque" sounds good enough, especially for something whose only real advantage is possibly slightly improving how the wearer looks to others. For a different product that's glasses instead of a VR headset, sure, it might work (although I don't see why you'd want to go semi-opaque at all with glasses really, it won't be close to an immersive VR-style experience anyway?)
wrsh07 3y ago
At the very least there's the low tech solution of an opaque cover you put over it AR and VR have always felt like duals to me - with AR, you just put something behind it and you have VR. With VR you do passthrough video

threeseed 3y ago

Two deal breaking issues: 1) The reason that the resolution is so high on the AVP is because it uses Micro-OLED which is also known as OLED on Silicon i.e. there is a layer of silicon behind the diodes which would block the light. 2) Transparent OLED TVs required a motorised screen to put a black panel behind the display. Only options are that or electrochromatic glass. Both of which are not black enough for watching movies etc.

KaiserPro 3y ago
> The reason that the resolution is so high on the AVP is because it uses Micro-OLED which is also known as OLED well, its more that they managed to get them efficient enough not to melt/produce useable brightness. But the actual biggest issue is optics. You can't just slap a transparent screen where your glasses are, and be able to see an image. You need to correct the image so its focused almost at "infinite". Thats why wave guides are a thing, they (simplistically) project an image as if it was focused further away than is actually was. However, they aren't very efficient, which means you either need to dim the outside world, or overdrive your LEDs so they only last a few hours(and melt your face.) They have other issues like rainbow artifacts.