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In my experience Europeans have a different view of life than North Americans. Especially East coasters. In work I find they are more interested in perfection a

In my experience Europeans have a different view of life than North Americans. Especially East coasters. In work I find they are more interested in perfection and creativity, and less so on productivity, output, and efficiency. Thirty days of holiday a year is affordable if North Americans would be fine with houses that were 13% less spacious, but most North Americans I met heavily optimize living space, where Europeans outsource their after hour times to pubs and social atmospheres. An "excellent" amount of vacation in North America is 20 days + 7 or so Government mandated days off. I've yet to meet someone under 35 that has a better deal than that, even in tech, and for most workers it is 10 days + 7.

tbrownaw 15y ago
An "excellent" amount of vacation in North America is 20 days + 7 or so Government mandated days off. I've yet to meet someone under 35 that has a better deal than that, even in tech, and for most workers it is 10 days + 7. 27 years old, with 25 "PTO" days + 6 fixed 1.5 day holidays + 2 fixed 2.5 day holidays. Middle-ish USA (Memphis TN).
rdtsc 15y ago
Interesting observation on how Americans optimize on living space. In a certain way I optimized for more time with my family. That comes as #1 priority. That means to thing: more vacation time and minimum commute to work (it take me 7 minutes to get to work). This mean reducing the living space and living in an older house. Granted I am not American by birth so perhaps it is something in the "blood" as they say. Commutes and spending time in traffic is killing me. It is a dead, useless time, it creates stress and eats away at my life little by little every single day. If you spend 1.5 hours driving to work each way, add that time up for 10 years and you'll be shocked. If I wouldn't have a family I might think twice, but thinking that I could spend that time with them instead and being stuck on the freeway is unbearable to me.
zeroonetwothree 15y ago
I know some engineers that get 30 days off (including federal holidays).
reinhardt 15y ago
Does vacation here mean paid only or total? Personally I wouldn't mind that much if it meant paid only and I was allowed to take a pay cut in exchange for more (unpaid) vacation days.
- cpeterso 15y ago
  In the US, "vacation days" and "sick days" are PTO (Paid Time-Off). So workers can sometimes "cash out" vacation days rather than taking them off, but it is uncommon to take unpaid days off.
  - reinhardt 15y ago
    I understand it's uncommon as the culture is generally more money/debt driven. I'm just curious if suggesting it to a prospective employer would be negotiable or an instant disqualifier ("How dare he be satisfied with less money?? He must be a pinko commie!")
    - angelbob 15y ago
      Most employers are fine if you take extra unpaid days off as long as you tell them in advance. Disclaimer: I work in software in silicon valley.
    - zbuc 15y ago
      > I'm just curious if suggesting it to a prospective employer would be negotiable or an instant disqualifier ("How dare he be satisfied with less money?? He must be a pinko commie!") Depends entirely on the employer.
khuey 15y ago
All US employees at Mozilla have 21 days + 10 government-ish holidays off so it's not unheard of.
Retric 15y ago
I am a 31 year old programmer working 40 hour weeks in the US. I get 21 days PTO + 2 floating holidays + 7 Government holidays + 5 days training days + 3 months sick leave at full pay + unlimited sick leave at 60% pay (long term disability). I also pay 2k/month in rent for a small, but nice apartment in the DC area. Ignoring sick-leave and training that works out to 30 days / year off, they don't let you cash it out and there is a 25day cap designed to get you to actually use that time off. (Most people end up taking a month off every other year or so, they also let you go a little negative to encourage longer vacations.) PS: They also do maternity / adoption leave, and give separate time off for funerals etc.
- enjo 15y ago
  Where is this?:)
  - Retric 15y ago
    http://www.boozallen.com/ http://www.boozallen.com/ they start you at 16 or 17 days PTO after 5 years it's bumped to 21, but all the other benefits stay the same. PS: I know plenty of people who work insane hours there. But, it's not 'required' just useful for promotions etc.

tbrownaw 15y ago

An "excellent" amount of vacation in North America is 20 days + 7 or so Government mandated days off. I've yet to meet someone under 35 that has a better deal than that, even in tech, and for most workers it is 10 days + 7. 27 years old, with 25 "PTO" days + 6 fixed 1.5 day holidays + 2 fixed 2.5 day holidays. Middle-ish USA (Memphis TN).

rdtsc 15y ago

Interesting observation on how Americans optimize on living space. In a certain way I optimized for more time with my family. That comes as #1 priority. That means to thing: more vacation time and minimum commute to work (it take me 7 minutes to get to work). This mean reducing the living space and living in an older house. Granted I am not American by birth so perhaps it is something in the "blood" as they say. Commutes and spending time in traffic is killing me. It is a dead, useless time, it creates stress and eats away at my life little by little every single day. If you spend 1.5 hours driving to work each way, add that time up for 10 years and you'll be shocked. If I wouldn't have a family I might think twice, but thinking that I could spend that time with them instead and being stuck on the freeway is unbearable to me.

zeroonetwothree 15y ago

I know some engineers that get 30 days off (including federal holidays).

reinhardt 15y ago

Does vacation here mean paid only or total? Personally I wouldn't mind that much if it meant paid only and I was allowed to take a pay cut in exchange for more (unpaid) vacation days.

cpeterso 15y ago
In the US, "vacation days" and "sick days" are PTO (Paid Time-Off). So workers can sometimes "cash out" vacation days rather than taking them off, but it is uncommon to take unpaid days off.
- reinhardt 15y ago
  I understand it's uncommon as the culture is generally more money/debt driven. I'm just curious if suggesting it to a prospective employer would be negotiable or an instant disqualifier ("How dare he be satisfied with less money?? He must be a pinko commie!")
  - angelbob 15y ago
    Most employers are fine if you take extra unpaid days off as long as you tell them in advance. Disclaimer: I work in software in silicon valley.
  - zbuc 15y ago
    > I'm just curious if suggesting it to a prospective employer would be negotiable or an instant disqualifier ("How dare he be satisfied with less money?? He must be a pinko commie!") Depends entirely on the employer.

khuey 15y ago

All US employees at Mozilla have 21 days + 10 government-ish holidays off so it's not unheard of.

Retric 15y ago

I am a 31 year old programmer working 40 hour weeks in the US. I get 21 days PTO + 2 floating holidays + 7 Government holidays + 5 days training days + 3 months sick leave at full pay + unlimited sick leave at 60% pay (long term disability). I also pay 2k/month in rent for a small, but nice apartment in the DC area. Ignoring sick-leave and training that works out to 30 days / year off, they don't let you cash it out and there is a 25day cap designed to get you to actually use that time off. (Most people end up taking a month off every other year or so, they also let you go a little negative to encourage longer vacations.) PS: They also do maternity / adoption leave, and give separate time off for funerals etc.

enjo 15y ago
Where is this?:)
- Retric 15y ago
  http://www.boozallen.com/ http://www.boozallen.com/ they start you at 16 or 17 days PTO after 5 years it's bumped to 21, but all the other benefits stay the same. PS: I know plenty of people who work insane hours there. But, it's not 'required' just useful for promotions etc.