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Worth noting that the approach to ventilation of a working fire is very different in the US than it is in Europe and Australia. Here we tend to ventilate only o

Worth noting that the approach to ventilation of a working fire is very different in the US than it is in Europe and Australia. Here we tend to ventilate only once the fire is under control rather than during the rescue and initial attack stages. Cutting a hole in a roof to ventilate a fire is never done. Breaking a window is very rare. Instead, we tend to stay low and manage the overpressure layer with gas cooling. Short bursts from firefighting nozzles that use a spinning element to atomise the spray. These rapidly turn to steam, pulling heat out of the room with the expansion. Precision is very important as too much water or insufficient atomisation will create a sauna, lowering the survivability of the compartment.

FireBeyond 3y ago
> Precision is very important as too much water or insufficient atomisation will create a sauna, lowering the survivability of the compartment. To my sister comment, this is more of the same, things we know or think we do. I actually don't know which is true, but we were taught the same, even with a fog nozzle into the overhead. "Careful that you don't lobster yourself, your partner, or the victim!" Now it's "people will survive that, just get it cool and get the smoke out".
- davidbanham 3y ago
  It’s definitely a real thing. Happens frequently with newbies during hot cell training. Nobody dies, but they do get uncomfortable and superficially burned.
fm2606 3y ago
> Here we tend to ventilate only once the fire is under control rather than during the rescue and initial attack stages. Cutting a hole in a roof to ventilate a fire is never done. Breaking a window is very rare. Respectfully disagree. At the central FL fire dept I worked for (2006 - 2020) ventilation during initial attack was practiced and expected. The command to ventilate is given by the hose team once water is on the fire. For my dept, breaking a window was probably the most used because a couple of reasons: 1) most houses are single story and 2) usually not enough people for roof ops, initially at least. First due is a 3 man engine, 2 man rescue (ambulance) and a district chief, with at least the same complement for second due. 2-in / 2-out rule kept crews off the roof but the 2-out could, and would, break a window. Once additional crews arrive on scene, roof ops would be started if needed. But, each dept and type of fires for the area are different. At our dept, single family homes, room and contents fire were the bread and butter, so roof ops weren't usually needed, but, breaking a window in a coordinated effort and in a strategic position was almost always done.
- jstanley 3y ago
  The person you're replying to didn't say where "here" is. I took them to mean they were in Europe, which could explain why your experience was different.
  - fm2606 3y ago
    You are correct and I meant to acknowledge that in my comment. I took them to mean "here" as U.S.
    - selimthegrim 3y ago
      He is in Australia as per his website.
      - davidbanham 3y ago
        Yep, spot on. Sorry I thought it was clear from the context that I was contrasting the US practice. To be clear, not trying to say one is superior to the other. I don’t have any experience with, or specific training in, the US method.

FireBeyond 3y ago

> Precision is very important as too much water or insufficient atomisation will create a sauna, lowering the survivability of the compartment. To my sister comment, this is more of the same, things we know or think we do. I actually don't know which is true, but we were taught the same, even with a fog nozzle into the overhead. "Careful that you don't lobster yourself, your partner, or the victim!" Now it's "people will survive that, just get it cool and get the smoke out".

davidbanham 3y ago
It’s definitely a real thing. Happens frequently with newbies during hot cell training. Nobody dies, but they do get uncomfortable and superficially burned.

fm2606 3y ago

> Here we tend to ventilate only once the fire is under control rather than during the rescue and initial attack stages. Cutting a hole in a roof to ventilate a fire is never done. Breaking a window is very rare. Respectfully disagree. At the central FL fire dept I worked for (2006 - 2020) ventilation during initial attack was practiced and expected. The command to ventilate is given by the hose team once water is on the fire. For my dept, breaking a window was probably the most used because a couple of reasons: 1) most houses are single story and 2) usually not enough people for roof ops, initially at least. First due is a 3 man engine, 2 man rescue (ambulance) and a district chief, with at least the same complement for second due. 2-in / 2-out rule kept crews off the roof but the 2-out could, and would, break a window. Once additional crews arrive on scene, roof ops would be started if needed. But, each dept and type of fires for the area are different. At our dept, single family homes, room and contents fire were the bread and butter, so roof ops weren't usually needed, but, breaking a window in a coordinated effort and in a strategic position was almost always done.

jstanley 3y ago
The person you're replying to didn't say where "here" is. I took them to mean they were in Europe, which could explain why your experience was different.
- fm2606 3y ago
  You are correct and I meant to acknowledge that in my comment. I took them to mean "here" as U.S.
  - selimthegrim 3y ago
    He is in Australia as per his website.
    - davidbanham 3y ago
      Yep, spot on. Sorry I thought it was clear from the context that I was contrasting the US practice. To be clear, not trying to say one is superior to the other. I don’t have any experience with, or specific training in, the US method.