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Oh yes, people DO develop stuff that is not needed. Back in the 90ies pretty much every nerd sooner or later had to write his own programming language (myself i

Oh yes, people DO develop stuff that is not needed. Back in the 90ies pretty much every nerd sooner or later had to write his own programming language (myself included). The difference between then and today: We did throw it away afterwards. These days every week someone spews out a new "programming language", claiming that the re-invented wheel is so much more round than the others. If fully agree that you might need to automate editing and deploying config files. But you don't need a new programming language for that. Just use one of the thousands of existing languages and tools. You can for example use sed. A standard since 1973. Available everywhere. 76KB in size. Extremely fast. Or use AWK. Exists since 1977. Or you can use Perl. Natively able to read/write ini files, and in general very good at string processing. 6MB in size (or 250KB for embedded versions). Or use Javascript, PHP, shell scripting, whatever. But no, there is absolutely no need to invent a new programming language for a task where there are very established tools for.

__MatrixMan__ 3y ago
I stopped using sed because it behaved differently on my coworker's machine than it did on mine.
- hot_gril 3y ago
  Same, actually a lot of the listed things are too old-school for me.
ivlad 3y ago
You are proposing to use general propose language vs domain-specific ones. I think, this discussion has been settled quite some time ago. For example, awk itself is domain-specific, built for processing text (or filed-separated) files. On the other had, m4 is as old as awk. m4 was heavily used even before autoconf (sendmail configuration is probably the best-known and possibly the ugliest application of it), for configuration, so one can argue, the need for macro expansion and rendering of configuration (as well as othe types) files was recognised even back then. m4 just shows its age, and we’ve learned what is good (being Turing-complete) and what’s less useful (multiple output streams). m4 could’ve evolved into m5, m6, etc., but nobody did it, instead people developed tools like jinja. One could argue, this is wrong and should’ve been evolutionary, but the point still is, domain-specific language to render configuration existed because there was use for them. Perl indeed could be such, I guess it did not happen for totally unrelated reasons. If Perl worked, Python would not gain popularity. Pkl is not conceptually a new invention, it’s a new attempt to solve a real problem.
hot_gril 3y ago
I'm surprised there's no widely-adopted library for general-purpose languages that handles user-friendly object input and outputs static config (perhaps in JSON) for machines to read. Instead, there are several DSLs that act as dynamic config, and even some that generate dynamic config, or something in the middle like k8s YAMLs. Have I just not thought hard enough about this problem yet, and a DSL is really needed for it? Or should I go write that lib?
- niutech 3y ago
  There is PowerShell: `ConvertTo-Json`

__MatrixMan__ 3y ago

I stopped using sed because it behaved differently on my coworker's machine than it did on mine.

hot_gril 3y ago
Same, actually a lot of the listed things are too old-school for me.

ivlad 3y ago

You are proposing to use general propose language vs domain-specific ones. I think, this discussion has been settled quite some time ago. For example, awk itself is domain-specific, built for processing text (or filed-separated) files. On the other had, m4 is as old as awk. m4 was heavily used even before autoconf (sendmail configuration is probably the best-known and possibly the ugliest application of it), for configuration, so one can argue, the need for macro expansion and rendering of configuration (as well as othe types) files was recognised even back then. m4 just shows its age, and we’ve learned what is good (being Turing-complete) and what’s less useful (multiple output streams). m4 could’ve evolved into m5, m6, etc., but nobody did it, instead people developed tools like jinja. One could argue, this is wrong and should’ve been evolutionary, but the point still is, domain-specific language to render configuration existed because there was use for them. Perl indeed could be such, I guess it did not happen for totally unrelated reasons. If Perl worked, Python would not gain popularity. Pkl is not conceptually a new invention, it’s a new attempt to solve a real problem.

hot_gril 3y ago

I'm surprised there's no widely-adopted library for general-purpose languages that handles user-friendly object input and outputs static config (perhaps in JSON) for machines to read. Instead, there are several DSLs that act as dynamic config, and even some that generate dynamic config, or something in the middle like k8s YAMLs. Have I just not thought hard enough about this problem yet, and a DSL is really needed for it? Or should I go write that lib?

niutech 3y ago
There is PowerShell: `ConvertTo-Json`