6 ms·

Why is it so hard to find a job despite low unemployment?

25 points by rustoo 3y ago

iwanttocomment 3y ago
Because it's easy to find a job. It's much more hard to find a good job.
- throwawaysleep 3y ago
  Also, how many of the unemployed are any good? I know people who are unemployed. I don't know any I would want on my team. And while on paper a few are theoretically great (20+ years experience as a software engineer), they don't want to learn React or newer versions of Java.
  - hmcq6 3y ago
    > Also, how many of the unemployed are any good? Do you understand what a layoff is? The market is flooded with great developers who got let go by CEO's and managers who are either incompetent or negligent.
    - bequanna 3y ago
      The market is flooded with Product Managers and other tech-adjacent people who were the primary focus of the layoffs.
  - naijaboiler 3y ago
    these type of comments are common until it happens to you
  - rramadass 3y ago
    Total BS! People are willing to learn anything and everything to land and keep a job. The problem is the HR/Recruiting process using buzzwords/jargons/fads to screen applicants in a all or nothing manner.
    - tracker1 3y ago
      This... Especially recruits who don't understand what they're looking for... You have to sell through the recruiter, then the amount manager before anyone with a clue sees your resume. And those first two states you pretty much need to be as arrogant as possible... If you're honest and say you're a 7 at something, they drop you for not being a 9... May as well lie. And by 7 vs 9, to me a 9 or 10 is someone who literally someone who works on the language or platform... I've used JS since 1996 and know it far better than most, I still don't feel comfortable calling myself a 10 with it...
      - ahallock 3y ago
        I've had similar experiences. One recruiter within the company said they had an offer ready for me and then asked about my React experience at the last second. I was completely honest that I was still getting up to speed on React but had used similar frameworks and done front-end since the late 90s. I got ghosted.
      - gymbeaux 3y ago
        I condone cheating on interviews. Don’t lie on your resume, but check GlassDoor for interview reviews- more often than not you see exactly what they’re going to ask you about. One interview I saw they ask candidates about SOLID principles and the three dependency injection lifetimes in C#. I made sure I had those on lockdown (and by lockdown I mean up on my computer screen during the phone call). It’s absurd that you’re expected to know things like SOLID like we say a pledge of allegiance every morning about it… I, like most, follow SOLID (more or less) without realizing it.
        tracker1 3y ago
        Solid as a religion bugs me... Not as much as "Clean Code" patterns in the .Net space. You usually don't need half the level of separation in practice especially for micro services. Write similar code. Have classes that represent the concern from a feature perspective instead of a technology perspective. Etc.
  - tracker1 3y ago
    I'm looking right now with 20+ years of experience and recent with .Net/C# through v6 and React v16. That said I'm trying to stay less than a 15% pay cut. There are jobs... And I'm about to go ahead and take the 25% pay cut a lot of the jobs are at. But it still sucks. I'm applying and seeing literally over a hundred others have applied to most things. I'm also so sick of boilerplate rejection emails. If I haven't spoken to a human, I'd rather not get any email at this point.
    - musicale 3y ago
      It's probably easier to lay off people (and hire cheaper replacements if needed) than to cut their pay. The tech industry seems to have decided to do this.
    - gymbeaux 3y ago
      10 YOE with C# and React being the bulk of it. My company canned most of the IT department/engineers in August after getting hacked a bunch the last couple of years. I haven’t seriously started looking until January, but wow. I posted on that “who’s looking?” thread here on HN I’d say a month or so ago, had one guy reach out for a job working with WPF. I’m guessing if that weren’t enough to turn me off, the pay would’ve been. I will say the best-paying SWE jobs are never going to be with C#. I pulled out with one company before getting a final offer, but they said it’d be around $130-140k and it’s mundane C#/React/MSSQL which I’m actually trying to get away from. I don’t know if it’s still the case today, but 2 years ago there were many companies who’d hire you despite having 0 experience with their language (usually something newer like Go). I’ll just keep on with house projects and reading and relaxing for a while longer. It’s been 5 months and I still don’t need the money. Still, I wouldn’t be surprised if I end up taking a pay cut.
      - tracker1 3y ago
        I'd like to take more time, but medical bills, home and car repairs are into things a lot. Think I may have found a job today, starting in a few weeks though. It's been a rough 5 weeks though.
apapapa 3y ago
Unemployment rates are fake btw
- patrick451 3y ago
  Yup. Letting people "drop out of the workforce" is the perfect way to let you produce any number you want. Any measure other than number of people with jobs divided by US population is is suspect and likely corrupt.
  - actuallyalys 3y ago
    I think this perspective is simplistic, but the U.S. government does produce basically this number (although I think they exclude children): https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/EMRATIO https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/EMRATIO. Currently it's 60.2 percent, a value higher than immediately after the major COVID layoffs or the 2008 financial crisis but lower than peaks in the 80s, 90s, or 00s. Most of this drop is because of the U.S.'s aging population. Looking at the same ratio from people between 25 and 54 shows it's 80.6 percent, about as high as ever: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS12300060 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS12300060.
    - ipaddr 3y ago
      This is interesting. I think 25 to 54 is the key working age range. I'm curious if homemaker or stay at home dad is represented
      - actuallyalys 3y ago
        Yeah, economists sometimes call it "prime age." I'm not sure what you mean by "represented"? Someone who doesn't have a job in order to be a caretaker or keep up a household would count as not employed, even though those people are still doing work. (The same would apply for people without jobs and spend their time in school or volunteering.) They do ask why people aren't working in government surveys, so that information is available to analyze. I wasn't able to quickly find an overall recent figure, but there is a figure for people who are technically in the labor force but haven't looked for work in the last month: https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea38.htm https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea38.htm. And I also found an older figure: https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-4/people-who-are-not-in-the-labor-force-why-arent-they-working.htm https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-4/people-who-are-not-in-....
mgh2 3y ago
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHaDrM8EgYg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHaDrM8EgYg
tuatoru 3y ago
> Siu, who's trying to use his pharmacy degree to work in other parts of healthcare, is finding it harder to land interviews than in a prior job search. HR is using AI application tracking systems to screen applicants, and it's doing as good a job as AI and software does. Don't have $EXACT_KEYWORD1 and $BUZZWORD2? Your application will never get seen by a human.
csomar 3y ago
One reason could be that the current unemployment rate used is not that useful. A better metric would be total employment: https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/employed-persons https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/employed-persons It has increased since the pandemic, but so did the US population. If the linear trend (pre-pandemic) carried on, the US should be at 165 million total employed. However, currently it is sitting at 161 million. So there is 3-4 million jobs missing.

25 points by rustoo 3y ago

iwanttocomment 3y ago

Because it's easy to find a job. It's much more hard to find a good job.

throwawaysleep 3y ago
Also, how many of the unemployed are any good? I know people who are unemployed. I don't know any I would want on my team. And while on paper a few are theoretically great (20+ years experience as a software engineer), they don't want to learn React or newer versions of Java.
- hmcq6 3y ago
  > Also, how many of the unemployed are any good? Do you understand what a layoff is? The market is flooded with great developers who got let go by CEO's and managers who are either incompetent or negligent.
  - bequanna 3y ago
    The market is flooded with Product Managers and other tech-adjacent people who were the primary focus of the layoffs.
- naijaboiler 3y ago
  these type of comments are common until it happens to you
- rramadass 3y ago
  Total BS! People are willing to learn anything and everything to land and keep a job. The problem is the HR/Recruiting process using buzzwords/jargons/fads to screen applicants in a all or nothing manner.
  - tracker1 3y ago
    This... Especially recruits who don't understand what they're looking for... You have to sell through the recruiter, then the amount manager before anyone with a clue sees your resume. And those first two states you pretty much need to be as arrogant as possible... If you're honest and say you're a 7 at something, they drop you for not being a 9... May as well lie. And by 7 vs 9, to me a 9 or 10 is someone who literally someone who works on the language or platform... I've used JS since 1996 and know it far better than most, I still don't feel comfortable calling myself a 10 with it...
    - ahallock 3y ago
      I've had similar experiences. One recruiter within the company said they had an offer ready for me and then asked about my React experience at the last second. I was completely honest that I was still getting up to speed on React but had used similar frameworks and done front-end since the late 90s. I got ghosted.
    - gymbeaux 3y ago
      I condone cheating on interviews. Don’t lie on your resume, but check GlassDoor for interview reviews- more often than not you see exactly what they’re going to ask you about. One interview I saw they ask candidates about SOLID principles and the three dependency injection lifetimes in C#. I made sure I had those on lockdown (and by lockdown I mean up on my computer screen during the phone call). It’s absurd that you’re expected to know things like SOLID like we say a pledge of allegiance every morning about it… I, like most, follow SOLID (more or less) without realizing it.
      - tracker1 3y ago
        Solid as a religion bugs me... Not as much as "Clean Code" patterns in the .Net space. You usually don't need half the level of separation in practice especially for micro services. Write similar code. Have classes that represent the concern from a feature perspective instead of a technology perspective. Etc.
- tracker1 3y ago
  I'm looking right now with 20+ years of experience and recent with .Net/C# through v6 and React v16. That said I'm trying to stay less than a 15% pay cut. There are jobs... And I'm about to go ahead and take the 25% pay cut a lot of the jobs are at. But it still sucks. I'm applying and seeing literally over a hundred others have applied to most things. I'm also so sick of boilerplate rejection emails. If I haven't spoken to a human, I'd rather not get any email at this point.
  - musicale 3y ago
    It's probably easier to lay off people (and hire cheaper replacements if needed) than to cut their pay. The tech industry seems to have decided to do this.
  - gymbeaux 3y ago
    10 YOE with C# and React being the bulk of it. My company canned most of the IT department/engineers in August after getting hacked a bunch the last couple of years. I haven’t seriously started looking until January, but wow. I posted on that “who’s looking?” thread here on HN I’d say a month or so ago, had one guy reach out for a job working with WPF. I’m guessing if that weren’t enough to turn me off, the pay would’ve been. I will say the best-paying SWE jobs are never going to be with C#. I pulled out with one company before getting a final offer, but they said it’d be around $130-140k and it’s mundane C#/React/MSSQL which I’m actually trying to get away from. I don’t know if it’s still the case today, but 2 years ago there were many companies who’d hire you despite having 0 experience with their language (usually something newer like Go). I’ll just keep on with house projects and reading and relaxing for a while longer. It’s been 5 months and I still don’t need the money. Still, I wouldn’t be surprised if I end up taking a pay cut.
    - tracker1 3y ago
      I'd like to take more time, but medical bills, home and car repairs are into things a lot. Think I may have found a job today, starting in a few weeks though. It's been a rough 5 weeks though.

apapapa 3y ago

Unemployment rates are fake btw

patrick451 3y ago
Yup. Letting people "drop out of the workforce" is the perfect way to let you produce any number you want. Any measure other than number of people with jobs divided by US population is is suspect and likely corrupt.
- actuallyalys 3y ago
  I think this perspective is simplistic, but the U.S. government does produce basically this number (although I think they exclude children): https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/EMRATIO https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/EMRATIO. Currently it's 60.2 percent, a value higher than immediately after the major COVID layoffs or the 2008 financial crisis but lower than peaks in the 80s, 90s, or 00s. Most of this drop is because of the U.S.'s aging population. Looking at the same ratio from people between 25 and 54 shows it's 80.6 percent, about as high as ever: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS12300060 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS12300060.
  - ipaddr 3y ago
    This is interesting. I think 25 to 54 is the key working age range. I'm curious if homemaker or stay at home dad is represented
    - actuallyalys 3y ago
      Yeah, economists sometimes call it "prime age." I'm not sure what you mean by "represented"? Someone who doesn't have a job in order to be a caretaker or keep up a household would count as not employed, even though those people are still doing work. (The same would apply for people without jobs and spend their time in school or volunteering.) They do ask why people aren't working in government surveys, so that information is available to analyze. I wasn't able to quickly find an overall recent figure, but there is a figure for people who are technically in the labor force but haven't looked for work in the last month: https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea38.htm https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea38.htm. And I also found an older figure: https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-4/people-who-are-not-in-the-labor-force-why-arent-they-working.htm https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-4/people-who-are-not-in-....

mgh2 3y ago

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHaDrM8EgYg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHaDrM8EgYg

tuatoru 3y ago

> Siu, who's trying to use his pharmacy degree to work in other parts of healthcare, is finding it harder to land interviews than in a prior job search. HR is using AI application tracking systems to screen applicants, and it's doing as good a job as AI and software does. Don't have $EXACT_KEYWORD1 and $BUZZWORD2? Your application will never get seen by a human.

csomar 3y ago

One reason could be that the current unemployment rate used is not that useful. A better metric would be total employment: https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/employed-persons https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/employed-persons It has increased since the pandemic, but so did the US population. If the linear trend (pre-pandemic) carried on, the US should be at 165 million total employed. However, currently it is sitting at 161 million. So there is 3-4 million jobs missing.