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You're really not saying anything meaningful. Whether something is a "natural aspect of humanity" doesn't mean anything at all about how we should discuss and h

You're really not saying anything meaningful. Whether something is a "natural aspect of humanity" doesn't mean anything at all about how we should discuss and handle it. Humans have murdered each other for as long as we've existed. Would you advocate for "thoughtful discourse" on how to better integrate this fully natural aspect of humanity into our society? Has all of our generations of telling people "just say no" to murdering each other just conditioned our society to reject thoughtful discourse on murder?

mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
Integrating murder? No. But pretending it will go away at some point is still effectively delusional. Violence? There are endless ways of integrating violence or the need to commit it into culture in moral ways. Martial arts for instance. Finding healthy outlets for violent urges is an important part of human culture. What it means specifically is that we will always have to deal with it, and can't ignore it or hope it goes away someday.
deleted 3y ago
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TeMPOraL 3y ago
> Would you advocate for "thoughtful discourse" on how to better integrate this fully natural aspect of humanity into our society? We kind of did do it, though. Between state monopoly on violence, exercised by leaders and courts through armies and law enforcement, and all exceptions and extenuating circumstances around e.g. self-defense, we managed to integrate even murder into our society. Regardless, it's not very useful to bucket murder and drug use in the same bucket. It would perhaps be better to consider alcohol, tobacco and coffee as the mind-altering drugs they are, as this should shine light on alternative approaches applicable to the same category of consumables.
- zmgsabst 3y ago
  We integrated killing/violence. “Murder” is a word that means intentional wrongful killing — and “murder” is only defined within the context of integrating violence into society.
zmgsabst 3y ago
Murder presupposes that violence is wrong — as murder is specifically a term for wrongful, intentional killing. A better example is “zero tolerance” for violence in schools — which has led to many documented cases of punishing victims defending themselves. We regularly debate the “zero violence!” crowd about how their beliefs are unethical and damaging. The same as with drugs.

mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago

Integrating murder? No. But pretending it will go away at some point is still effectively delusional. Violence? There are endless ways of integrating violence or the need to commit it into culture in moral ways. Martial arts for instance. Finding healthy outlets for violent urges is an important part of human culture. What it means specifically is that we will always have to deal with it, and can't ignore it or hope it goes away someday.

deleted 3y ago

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TeMPOraL 3y ago

> Would you advocate for "thoughtful discourse" on how to better integrate this fully natural aspect of humanity into our society? We kind of did do it, though. Between state monopoly on violence, exercised by leaders and courts through armies and law enforcement, and all exceptions and extenuating circumstances around e.g. self-defense, we managed to integrate even murder into our society. Regardless, it's not very useful to bucket murder and drug use in the same bucket. It would perhaps be better to consider alcohol, tobacco and coffee as the mind-altering drugs they are, as this should shine light on alternative approaches applicable to the same category of consumables.

zmgsabst 3y ago
We integrated killing/violence. “Murder” is a word that means intentional wrongful killing — and “murder” is only defined within the context of integrating violence into society.

zmgsabst 3y ago

Murder presupposes that violence is wrong — as murder is specifically a term for wrongful, intentional killing. A better example is “zero tolerance” for violence in schools — which has led to many documented cases of punishing victims defending themselves. We regularly debate the “zero violence!” crowd about how their beliefs are unethical and damaging. The same as with drugs.