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Have you tried meditation? I genuinely am asking.

austin-cheney 3y ago
We have, but we didn’t try enough types of medication to find an ideal fit. I suspect the right medication would be helpful. The more extreme the ADHD the higher the concentration of medication is required to achieve normal functioning which means high side effects. To understand the complexity of brain medication requires an understanding of the problem. For ADHD the problem is both dopamine and low serotonin. Dopamine is complicated and moderating for it has second and third order consequences the ill cannot see. Solving for serotonin is simple and the results are crystal clear. So it seems many of the medications attempt to adjust for both with various degrees of success. When a person with ADHD attempts to self medicate with drugs, stimulants, or bad food choices they are solving for serotonin up take and it doesn’t work. Another problem with medications in high concentrations is body tolerance which eventually eliminates the value of the medication and medication can run out. Currently we are working through behavior modification of risk/reward. If you lose something you don’t have it anymore so perform a deep dive on that emotional consequence to think of solutions and planning to address that moving forward. This is working but it’s supremely and requires overcoming lots of adversity.
- wkipling 3y ago
  I think they meant meditation.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
  Have you tried strattera(atomoxetine)?
- lawrenceyan 3y ago
  I won’t tell you not to use medication. Most of the world drinks caffeine everyday. Maybe it truly is necessary for some people. But I would really caution its usage. It’s the same as putting a hammer and slamming it against the person’s brain. It’s also temporary and goes away the moment the drug disappears. Meditation has the benefit of bringing permanent positive changes. But more importantly it acts in a way that recognizes the incredible complexity that our brains consist of.
  - dpig_ 3y ago
    > It's also temporary and goes away the moment the drug disappears. Some meditative insight might reveal that, in fact, everything is temporary. Therapies don't need to be cures.
    - lawrenceyan 3y ago
      Why choose temporary dependencies when you can have the real thing?
- musiciangames 3y ago
  Did you try Modafinil? The effect of tolerance is much less, and few side effects. But maybe not sufficiently industrial strength for you.
- astrange 3y ago
  > For ADHD the problem is both dopamine and low serotonin. No mental disorder is caused by low anything. ADHD (some types) are more like you have extra leaky neurons and the dopamine falls out of them. On the other hand, serotonin drugs working for depression seems like it might be a coincidence. Strattera mostly affects norepinephrine though.
mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
Not the OP, but I also have catastrophic ADHD as they so eloquently put it. I've tried several techniques, that have had some minor initial success, but I just get bored and stop doing it. Which is also why I never became a better than beginner guitar player, properly filled out my opening repertoire in chess, finished almost any project I started, or did regular exercise. I just can't get myself to do boring repetitive tasks.
- lawrenceyan 3y ago
  Part of the point of meditation in its early stages is training focus/concentration. If you feel bored that’s a good thing! It means you’re giving your brain a good workout basically, and it’s improving.
  - LoganDark 3y ago
    "catastrophic ADHD" is probably one of the best ways I've seen it described. At times I get hit with just how many things it's ruined over the years and it just makes me feel completely hopeless, like I don't even have any control over my life at all. I don't know if I ever will. It sucks feeling like I could be intelligent and have great potential but my ability to turn that potential into real action is so impaired that I'm almost completely useless and never achieve any of my actual goals. I've tried to meditate before, but... it doesn't really work. If I try to think less, then thoughts will just hide themselves from me. repeatedly, some new fully-developed thought will just suddenly reveal itself to me, having already been developing for the past 10+ seconds without my knowledge. And this will just keep happening. Stuff just keeps happening in the background and I have no control of it. It's like other parts of my brain are thinking completely for themselves and all I can do is watch and beg for control, and never get it. I'm autistic, and that type of experience is commonly recognized as an autistic pattern of thought. I don't want to live like this, the catastrophic ADHD, but it doesn't seem like there's any way to fix it. I feel like my brain is completely defective.
    - astrange 3y ago
      > If I try to think less, then thoughts will just hide themselves from me. repeatedly, some new fully-developed thought will just suddenly reveal itself to me, having already been developing for the past 10+ seconds without my knowledge. That sounds like successful meditation, because noticing this is the first thing you're supposed to learn using it. Just practice it going away again once it shows up.

We have, but we didn’t try enough types of medication to find an ideal fit. I suspect the right medication would be helpful. The more extreme the ADHD the higher the concentration of medication is required to achieve normal functioning which means high side effects. To understand the complexity of brain medication requires an understanding of the problem. For ADHD the problem is both dopamine and low serotonin. Dopamine is complicated and moderating for it has second and third order consequences the ill cannot see. Solving for serotonin is simple and the results are crystal clear. So it seems many of the medications attempt to adjust for both with various degrees of success. When a person with ADHD attempts to self medicate with drugs, stimulants, or bad food choices they are solving for serotonin up take and it doesn’t work. Another problem with medications in high concentrations is body tolerance which eventually eliminates the value of the medication and medication can run out. Currently we are working through behavior modification of risk/reward. If you lose something you don’t have it anymore so perform a deep dive on that emotional consequence to think of solutions and planning to address that moving forward. This is working but it’s supremely and requires overcoming lots of adversity.

wkipling 3y ago
I think they meant meditation.
mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
Have you tried strattera(atomoxetine)?
lawrenceyan 3y ago
I won’t tell you not to use medication. Most of the world drinks caffeine everyday. Maybe it truly is necessary for some people. But I would really caution its usage. It’s the same as putting a hammer and slamming it against the person’s brain. It’s also temporary and goes away the moment the drug disappears. Meditation has the benefit of bringing permanent positive changes. But more importantly it acts in a way that recognizes the incredible complexity that our brains consist of.
- dpig_ 3y ago
  > It's also temporary and goes away the moment the drug disappears. Some meditative insight might reveal that, in fact, everything is temporary. Therapies don't need to be cures.
  - lawrenceyan 3y ago
    Why choose temporary dependencies when you can have the real thing?
musiciangames 3y ago
Did you try Modafinil? The effect of tolerance is much less, and few side effects. But maybe not sufficiently industrial strength for you.
astrange 3y ago
> For ADHD the problem is both dopamine and low serotonin. No mental disorder is caused by low anything. ADHD (some types) are more like you have extra leaky neurons and the dopamine falls out of them. On the other hand, serotonin drugs working for depression seems like it might be a coincidence. Strattera mostly affects norepinephrine though.

mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago

Not the OP, but I also have catastrophic ADHD as they so eloquently put it. I've tried several techniques, that have had some minor initial success, but I just get bored and stop doing it. Which is also why I never became a better than beginner guitar player, properly filled out my opening repertoire in chess, finished almost any project I started, or did regular exercise. I just can't get myself to do boring repetitive tasks.

lawrenceyan 3y ago
Part of the point of meditation in its early stages is training focus/concentration. If you feel bored that’s a good thing! It means you’re giving your brain a good workout basically, and it’s improving.
- LoganDark 3y ago
  "catastrophic ADHD" is probably one of the best ways I've seen it described. At times I get hit with just how many things it's ruined over the years and it just makes me feel completely hopeless, like I don't even have any control over my life at all. I don't know if I ever will. It sucks feeling like I could be intelligent and have great potential but my ability to turn that potential into real action is so impaired that I'm almost completely useless and never achieve any of my actual goals. I've tried to meditate before, but... it doesn't really work. If I try to think less, then thoughts will just hide themselves from me. repeatedly, some new fully-developed thought will just suddenly reveal itself to me, having already been developing for the past 10+ seconds without my knowledge. And this will just keep happening. Stuff just keeps happening in the background and I have no control of it. It's like other parts of my brain are thinking completely for themselves and all I can do is watch and beg for control, and never get it. I'm autistic, and that type of experience is commonly recognized as an autistic pattern of thought. I don't want to live like this, the catastrophic ADHD, but it doesn't seem like there's any way to fix it. I feel like my brain is completely defective.
  - astrange 3y ago
    > If I try to think less, then thoughts will just hide themselves from me. repeatedly, some new fully-developed thought will just suddenly reveal itself to me, having already been developing for the past 10+ seconds without my knowledge. That sounds like successful meditation, because noticing this is the first thing you're supposed to learn using it. Just practice it going away again once it shows up.