4 ms·

I completely agree on the extra overhead for opening new windows, and this authors thoughts on the pass-through quality. For myself I don’t think I realized how

I completely agree on the extra overhead for opening new windows, and this authors thoughts on the pass-through quality. For myself I don’t think I realized how much I just look around while I’m thinking or working on some thing else but the Apple Vision Pro makes that very obvious as things light up, expand, etc. I never used the iPad is anything more than a consumption device and as things stand right now I’m not sure if the apple Vision Pro is going to be more than that for me either. I wrote about this in my first impressions blog post [0], but what I really wanted was to use the Apple Vision Pro as a replacement for my computer monitors, it’s just not there yet. I look forward to future revisions and I’m also on a 13 day countdown to decide if I want to keep this or not. [0] https://joshstrange.com/2024/02/03/apple-vision-pro-first-impressions/ https://joshstrange.com/2024/02/03/apple-vision-pro-first-im...

Swizec 3y ago
> I never used the iPad is anything more than a consumption device Same until I got the keyboard. Most of my iPads collected dust in a corner because I don’t really do that much consumption. Then I got the Magic Keyboard and my iPad basically replaced my laptop. I use it for almost all my non-coding work. Even to give talks and workshops at conferences. The battery life is amazing, the form factor super convenient, and it fits on airplanes or in your lap perfectly. Nowadays my laptop mostly works as a desktop computer sitting in its dock hooked into a keyboard, monitor, and mouse. Useful only for very serious work.
- joshstrange 3y ago
  That’s something I still need to test in the Apple Vision Pro, connecting a keyboard to it. I used it with my laptop, which lets you use your keyboard with other Apple Vision Pro apps while it’s connected, which was very nice, and I also broke out the magic trackpad to use with the Apple Vision Pro because scrolling got annoying after a while. The problem is what I want to do is write code and I want to do it using my IDE so doing that inside of the Apple Vision Pro isn’t really possible unless I’m connected to my MacBook Pro
- jhrmnn 3y ago
  Interesting, exactly the same experience here. I’m now contemplating getting a desktop computer again once my laptop dies.
- somewhereoutth 3y ago
  But would it be fair to say that with the Magic Keyboard, your iPad has in fact become a laptop?
  - Swizec 3y ago
    It’s certainly almost as heavy. Unfortunately iOS is very nerfed compared to MacOS even though my M2 iPad probably hs more compute than my i9 laptop.
- nozzlegear 3y ago
  Same here, the keyboard plus iPad Pro has been an incredible combo for me. I’ve written here on HN before about how I use it to write code from the couch, bed, and even hotel rooms by SSHing into the Mac in my office and using Vim. I’ve got an Apple Vision Pro and am planning to test exactly that setup tonight.
  - pama 3y ago
    Did it work fine?
    - nozzlegear 3y ago
      Honestly it wasn’t bad at all! I’m sort of surprised how nice it was to work with using that setup. I had a little bit of trouble because the terminal/ssh app I like on my iPad (Blink) doesn’t work well at all on AVP, so I had to find another one. I ended up with La Termina which has a UX built for AVP. I think my only other complaints would be these: 1. Scrolling in Safari can be annoying depending on the website. Last night I was trying to refactor some GitHub Actions, and scrolling through the Action run page, it really wanted to get stuck selecting random parts of the GitHub UI that were close to what I was looking at but definitely not what I was looking at. I want some kind of cursor I can pick up and move in those scenarios I guess. 2. I don’t know why but I kinda expected my iPad keyboard to just work with the AVP, but it obviously did not. I wanted it to work like it does with the Mac, where I can just connect to the iPad as another screen and also use its peripherals, but that was not the case, so I had to run up to my office and grab a Bluetooth keyboard. All in all it’s not a bad experience so far. I’m not sold on it being better than the iPad just because the AVP is so heavy. But it’s definitely cool having a gigantic 4k terminal floating in the air above my bed while my wife reads her book and calls me a turbonerd. :P
      - pama 3y ago
        Thanks. There is a market for us turbonerds coding in bed in a VR.
kfichter 3y ago
I also pulled the trigger here hoping to be able to replace my desktop setup. What were the key issues you were having that made you feel like it's just not there yet for that use case?
- joshstrange 3y ago
  I cover some of this in my blog post, but mostly it came down to the text I was looking at would be sharp and easy to read, but anything in my peripheral vision would look a little bit blurry. I only gave it a quick test and today I’m planning on trying to write a new feature all in the Vision Pro to see how that goes.
  - joshstrange 3y ago
    After writing this I went to write a tiny new feature for my side project on the AVP. At first I couldn't get my AVP to connect to my MBP and I thought it might be because it was in clamshell mode. I opened up setting and clicked around a bit then it showed up on my AVP to connect to (I went to Control Center and clicked the button to connect to a MBP, it didn't prompt me. It did prompt me the other day when I had the laptop open). I started to write the feature but could feel the added friction and slowness. There was a little bit of input lag (moving mouse and feel like it wasn't moving as quick on the AVP), then I started getting an error from my backend in a place I hadn't touched anything. I very quickly took off the AVP to investigate with the "full power" of my MBP and external monitors. The text in the AVP is clear when you are looking at your code but moving your head "smears" the picture a bit and anything you aren't focusing on isn't clear. It would be workable and maybe I'd use it on a plane but never if I have my monitors available to me. I want to try again in the next few days but it's a decent way off from replacing my monitors.
    - drh 3y ago
      Really useful to hear about your experiences actually coding. None of the video reviews have touched on this, so thanks for that. With regards the ‘smearing’, not sure how familiar you are with VR tech but, could you characterise it further? Some things it may be off the top of my head: Is it the display not switching pixel state fast enough? This was a problem with early Oculus headsets until we figured out how to strobe displays for ‘low persistence’. Or, is it eye tracking lag, resulting in the foveated rendering not keeping up with where you are looking quickly enough? Human eyes can move extremely quickly from point-to-point (called saccades). Be great to get your thoughts on the possible cause / tech limitations.
somewhereoutth 3y ago
I don't really get the computer monitor replacement argument - if you are creating as opposed to consuming content (i.e. coding/designing/authoring), then you are going to need a rather better input medium than what a virtual keyboard/mouse will provide. And this better medium, whether keyboard, trackpad, mouse or something else, will be sitting on a desk - with your monitors! If you want more/bigger monitors, then go buy some with the $3499.
- joshstrange 3y ago
  I can’t speak for anybody else, but for me, I am happy to use a mouse, keyboard, and even my MacBook Pro. I just want the Apple Vision Pro to replace my monitors.
- grecy 3y ago
  You can use any physical mouse/keyboard as input for the Vision Pro, including the ones built into your laptop.
  - somewhereoutth 3y ago
    I can see how 'authoring from your lap' with a laptop actually on your lap (while on the sofa - like I am doing right now) might benefit from bigger/multi screens instead of the tiny portal the laptop gives you, but as soon as you want to do something more complex probably you'll reach for your mouse, and perhaps a paper and pen/pencil (if you think with your hands). Thus to the desk you go, where all your monitors are anyway.
    - grecy 3y ago
      > To sell the public that he achieved the dream of giving Ethiopia “access to sea”(which they already have access to) Sure, but the vision pro offers "bigger" monitors that can fill your vision (if you want)
  - sneak 3y ago
    I understand you cannot use bluetooth mice with it.
gnicholas 3y ago
I saw you post only occasionally and was intrigued by your first post, [1] about unsubscribing from college. Obviously you're doing just fine if a decade after pulling out of college you can afford an AVP! I'd be interested to read a retrospective on how the last decade has gone. 1: https://joshstrange.com/2012/03/21/why-i-canceled-my-college-subscription/ https://joshstrange.com/2012/03/21/why-i-canceled-my-college...
- joshstrange 3y ago
  Seeing how my normal blogging cadence is once every couple years, I can’t promise anything but if I do post some thing, I’ll reply to this. Overall, it’s gone very well and dropping out of college was the right choice for me.

Swizec 3y ago

> I never used the iPad is anything more than a consumption device Same until I got the keyboard. Most of my iPads collected dust in a corner because I don’t really do that much consumption. Then I got the Magic Keyboard and my iPad basically replaced my laptop. I use it for almost all my non-coding work. Even to give talks and workshops at conferences. The battery life is amazing, the form factor super convenient, and it fits on airplanes or in your lap perfectly. Nowadays my laptop mostly works as a desktop computer sitting in its dock hooked into a keyboard, monitor, and mouse. Useful only for very serious work.

joshstrange 3y ago
That’s something I still need to test in the Apple Vision Pro, connecting a keyboard to it. I used it with my laptop, which lets you use your keyboard with other Apple Vision Pro apps while it’s connected, which was very nice, and I also broke out the magic trackpad to use with the Apple Vision Pro because scrolling got annoying after a while. The problem is what I want to do is write code and I want to do it using my IDE so doing that inside of the Apple Vision Pro isn’t really possible unless I’m connected to my MacBook Pro
jhrmnn 3y ago
Interesting, exactly the same experience here. I’m now contemplating getting a desktop computer again once my laptop dies.
somewhereoutth 3y ago
But would it be fair to say that with the Magic Keyboard, your iPad has in fact become a laptop?
- Swizec 3y ago
  It’s certainly almost as heavy. Unfortunately iOS is very nerfed compared to MacOS even though my M2 iPad probably hs more compute than my i9 laptop.
nozzlegear 3y ago
Same here, the keyboard plus iPad Pro has been an incredible combo for me. I’ve written here on HN before about how I use it to write code from the couch, bed, and even hotel rooms by SSHing into the Mac in my office and using Vim. I’ve got an Apple Vision Pro and am planning to test exactly that setup tonight.
- pama 3y ago
  Did it work fine?
  - nozzlegear 3y ago
    Honestly it wasn’t bad at all! I’m sort of surprised how nice it was to work with using that setup. I had a little bit of trouble because the terminal/ssh app I like on my iPad (Blink) doesn’t work well at all on AVP, so I had to find another one. I ended up with La Termina which has a UX built for AVP. I think my only other complaints would be these: 1. Scrolling in Safari can be annoying depending on the website. Last night I was trying to refactor some GitHub Actions, and scrolling through the Action run page, it really wanted to get stuck selecting random parts of the GitHub UI that were close to what I was looking at but definitely not what I was looking at. I want some kind of cursor I can pick up and move in those scenarios I guess. 2. I don’t know why but I kinda expected my iPad keyboard to just work with the AVP, but it obviously did not. I wanted it to work like it does with the Mac, where I can just connect to the iPad as another screen and also use its peripherals, but that was not the case, so I had to run up to my office and grab a Bluetooth keyboard. All in all it’s not a bad experience so far. I’m not sold on it being better than the iPad just because the AVP is so heavy. But it’s definitely cool having a gigantic 4k terminal floating in the air above my bed while my wife reads her book and calls me a turbonerd. :P
    - pama 3y ago
      Thanks. There is a market for us turbonerds coding in bed in a VR.

kfichter 3y ago

I also pulled the trigger here hoping to be able to replace my desktop setup. What were the key issues you were having that made you feel like it's just not there yet for that use case?

joshstrange 3y ago
I cover some of this in my blog post, but mostly it came down to the text I was looking at would be sharp and easy to read, but anything in my peripheral vision would look a little bit blurry. I only gave it a quick test and today I’m planning on trying to write a new feature all in the Vision Pro to see how that goes.
- joshstrange 3y ago
  After writing this I went to write a tiny new feature for my side project on the AVP. At first I couldn't get my AVP to connect to my MBP and I thought it might be because it was in clamshell mode. I opened up setting and clicked around a bit then it showed up on my AVP to connect to (I went to Control Center and clicked the button to connect to a MBP, it didn't prompt me. It did prompt me the other day when I had the laptop open). I started to write the feature but could feel the added friction and slowness. There was a little bit of input lag (moving mouse and feel like it wasn't moving as quick on the AVP), then I started getting an error from my backend in a place I hadn't touched anything. I very quickly took off the AVP to investigate with the "full power" of my MBP and external monitors. The text in the AVP is clear when you are looking at your code but moving your head "smears" the picture a bit and anything you aren't focusing on isn't clear. It would be workable and maybe I'd use it on a plane but never if I have my monitors available to me. I want to try again in the next few days but it's a decent way off from replacing my monitors.
  - drh 3y ago
    Really useful to hear about your experiences actually coding. None of the video reviews have touched on this, so thanks for that. With regards the ‘smearing’, not sure how familiar you are with VR tech but, could you characterise it further? Some things it may be off the top of my head: Is it the display not switching pixel state fast enough? This was a problem with early Oculus headsets until we figured out how to strobe displays for ‘low persistence’. Or, is it eye tracking lag, resulting in the foveated rendering not keeping up with where you are looking quickly enough? Human eyes can move extremely quickly from point-to-point (called saccades). Be great to get your thoughts on the possible cause / tech limitations.

somewhereoutth 3y ago

I don't really get the computer monitor replacement argument - if you are creating as opposed to consuming content (i.e. coding/designing/authoring), then you are going to need a rather better input medium than what a virtual keyboard/mouse will provide. And this better medium, whether keyboard, trackpad, mouse or something else, will be sitting on a desk - with your monitors! If you want more/bigger monitors, then go buy some with the $3499.

joshstrange 3y ago
I can’t speak for anybody else, but for me, I am happy to use a mouse, keyboard, and even my MacBook Pro. I just want the Apple Vision Pro to replace my monitors.
grecy 3y ago
You can use any physical mouse/keyboard as input for the Vision Pro, including the ones built into your laptop.
- somewhereoutth 3y ago
  I can see how 'authoring from your lap' with a laptop actually on your lap (while on the sofa - like I am doing right now) might benefit from bigger/multi screens instead of the tiny portal the laptop gives you, but as soon as you want to do something more complex probably you'll reach for your mouse, and perhaps a paper and pen/pencil (if you think with your hands). Thus to the desk you go, where all your monitors are anyway.
  - grecy 3y ago
    > To sell the public that he achieved the dream of giving Ethiopia “access to sea”(which they already have access to) Sure, but the vision pro offers "bigger" monitors that can fill your vision (if you want)
- sneak 3y ago
  I understand you cannot use bluetooth mice with it.

gnicholas 3y ago

I saw you post only occasionally and was intrigued by your first post, [1] about unsubscribing from college. Obviously you're doing just fine if a decade after pulling out of college you can afford an AVP! I'd be interested to read a retrospective on how the last decade has gone. 1: https://joshstrange.com/2012/03/21/why-i-canceled-my-college-subscription/ https://joshstrange.com/2012/03/21/why-i-canceled-my-college...

joshstrange 3y ago
Seeing how my normal blogging cadence is once every couple years, I can’t promise anything but if I do post some thing, I’ll reply to this. Overall, it’s gone very well and dropping out of college was the right choice for me.