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And yet they're leading the world on a policy issue that nearly every person in rich, developed nations has in their top 10 most urgent concerns. Galling isn't

And yet they're leading the world on a policy issue that nearly every person in rich, developed nations has in their top 10 most urgent concerns. Galling isn't it?

sentientslug 3y ago
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- nonrandomstring 3y ago
  How could you possibly know anything about me and struggle? Spoken like a presumptuous upstart.
avgcorrection 3y ago
This sounds like a tropical country banning oil&gas heating in winter.
csmpltn 3y ago
I think you need to be told this in a very direct manner, so I'll take a stab at it: this is a country where the vast majority of the population can't shit down anything resembling a toilet, let alone wash their hands after they are done, because there's no infrastructure to support any of that. Forget stable and predictable access to food, or water, or medicine, or education. Compared to anything in the west - this country is in complete shambles, and their population is poor and is severely disadvantaged. You're sitting here celebrating what exactly? Their continued descent into eternal poverty and de-industrialization? Most people over there have a shit standard of living, but people like you are sitting here and celebrating that?
- nonrandomstring 3y ago
  Oh sweet baby Jesus, please do be civil sir. I can almost feel you popping a vein getting into a pompous flap over someone challenging your parochial world view. Here's an example I have first hand experience with. Portugal was often considered the "poor man of Europe". When I was there at the end of the last century it was almost impossible to get reliable communication without a satellite phone. I was stuck out in the mountains where nobody could afford a telephone since the cost of having copper run over 10km was too much even if the whole village clubbed together. I returned to London and thought rather little of it for years until I spoke to a family member there who said, I'll just email you some photos over. Seconds later my inbox was filled with hi-res jpegs. This must be costing you a fortune, I said, thinking of the old satphone. No, we're using the new dish! In Portugal, between 1999 and 2004, using a big EU development grant, most of the "poor south" went from having no telecoms at all to having some of the finest and cheapest in Europe. It was perfect for new LOS microwave links that meshed across the country. In fact, without a legacy of copper providers to wrestle with, the transition was cheaper and smoother. It's called "leapfrogging", which is a concept used in economics and business to describe rapid growth that bypasses stages assumed to be necessary, see Schumpeter, Stiglitz and Tirole and [0] I do know a little something of what Ethiopia is like from people who've served or lived there - so the lecture from someone who probably can't find it on a map is a tad tedious. As I understand it's a beautiful and fertile place, sadly torn by endless war. Anyway, you may know that African countries are leapfrogging at an astonishing rate, often spurred by Chinese investment. Indeed their "disadvantage" may be their greatest advantage, of not being under the heel of Western interests. They don't need to go through the environmentally devastating process of petrochemical industrialism if they can just go straight to a post-petro economy. Now if you've got something civil and interesting to say about Chinese investment, what that might mean I'd love to hear. But all said, hats-off to them. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leapfrogging https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leapfrogging
  - strickman 3y ago
    Unfortunately, the lack the industriousness of the Chinese people is certain to hinder the velocity of innovation we'd see with a purely Ethiopian effort. People don't eschew the "Made in China" label without reason. With hand tools for example, I started with Chinese made Harbor Freight in my 20's, German in my 30's, now it's either Ethiopian tools or "I'm not doing this project".
  - AlbertCory 3y ago
    Since you mentioned Portugal: I was there (northern part, only as far south as Porto) in 1995 or so. It's the only place I've ever seen oxcarts on the road. I didn't have a cell phone so I don't know about phone service. It was a very nice country and I'd love to go back, but it's still the "poor south" of Europe. Maybe you can "leapfrog" on phone service, but there's no modernist replacement for clean water, sewage disposal, and reliable electric power.

And yet they're leading the world on a policy issue that nearly every person in rich, developed nations has in their top 10 most urgent concerns. Galling isn't it?

sentientslug 3y ago

nonrandomstring 3y ago
How could you possibly know anything about me and struggle? Spoken like a presumptuous upstart.

avgcorrection 3y ago

This sounds like a tropical country banning oil&gas heating in winter.

csmpltn 3y ago

I think you need to be told this in a very direct manner, so I'll take a stab at it: this is a country where the vast majority of the population can't shit down anything resembling a toilet, let alone wash their hands after they are done, because there's no infrastructure to support any of that. Forget stable and predictable access to food, or water, or medicine, or education. Compared to anything in the west - this country is in complete shambles, and their population is poor and is severely disadvantaged. You're sitting here celebrating what exactly? Their continued descent into eternal poverty and de-industrialization? Most people over there have a shit standard of living, but people like you are sitting here and celebrating that?

nonrandomstring 3y ago
Oh sweet baby Jesus, please do be civil sir. I can almost feel you popping a vein getting into a pompous flap over someone challenging your parochial world view. Here's an example I have first hand experience with. Portugal was often considered the "poor man of Europe". When I was there at the end of the last century it was almost impossible to get reliable communication without a satellite phone. I was stuck out in the mountains where nobody could afford a telephone since the cost of having copper run over 10km was too much even if the whole village clubbed together. I returned to London and thought rather little of it for years until I spoke to a family member there who said, I'll just email you some photos over. Seconds later my inbox was filled with hi-res jpegs. This must be costing you a fortune, I said, thinking of the old satphone. No, we're using the new dish! In Portugal, between 1999 and 2004, using a big EU development grant, most of the "poor south" went from having no telecoms at all to having some of the finest and cheapest in Europe. It was perfect for new LOS microwave links that meshed across the country. In fact, without a legacy of copper providers to wrestle with, the transition was cheaper and smoother. It's called "leapfrogging", which is a concept used in economics and business to describe rapid growth that bypasses stages assumed to be necessary, see Schumpeter, Stiglitz and Tirole and [0] I do know a little something of what Ethiopia is like from people who've served or lived there - so the lecture from someone who probably can't find it on a map is a tad tedious. As I understand it's a beautiful and fertile place, sadly torn by endless war. Anyway, you may know that African countries are leapfrogging at an astonishing rate, often spurred by Chinese investment. Indeed their "disadvantage" may be their greatest advantage, of not being under the heel of Western interests. They don't need to go through the environmentally devastating process of petrochemical industrialism if they can just go straight to a post-petro economy. Now if you've got something civil and interesting to say about Chinese investment, what that might mean I'd love to hear. But all said, hats-off to them. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leapfrogging https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leapfrogging
- strickman 3y ago
  Unfortunately, the lack the industriousness of the Chinese people is certain to hinder the velocity of innovation we'd see with a purely Ethiopian effort. People don't eschew the "Made in China" label without reason. With hand tools for example, I started with Chinese made Harbor Freight in my 20's, German in my 30's, now it's either Ethiopian tools or "I'm not doing this project".
- AlbertCory 3y ago
  Since you mentioned Portugal: I was there (northern part, only as far south as Porto) in 1995 or so. It's the only place I've ever seen oxcarts on the road. I didn't have a cell phone so I don't know about phone service. It was a very nice country and I'd love to go back, but it's still the "poor south" of Europe. Maybe you can "leapfrog" on phone service, but there's no modernist replacement for clean water, sewage disposal, and reliable electric power.