4 ms·

I can 100% guarantees you that Quora didn’t die because of people who didn’t want to run JavaScript or be able to access it over Tor.

nonrandomstring 3y ago
Surely my absence played no pivotal role in their downfall. I didn't even know Quora had "died". How sad. RIP Quora. But a tjpnz said: "They're also driving away contributors with more altruistic motivations" Now, I can agree with that, because I see a very strong alignment between the set of people who strongly uphold their own values and have self-respect, and those who stand up for the rights of others and have something to give. The "walled garden" internet basically drives away people who give a fuck.
- zht 3y ago
  One other way of saying “drives away people who give a fuck” could be saying those people are self-aggrandizing, self important, always yelling at the top of their lungs about their zealotry telling everyone at first opportunity about how they turn off JavaScript and don’t contribute the much to the discussion I liken people like this to the Amish. They balk at modernity as being incompatible with their beliefs. So they withdraw from the world and live life as they see fit. What they don’t do is go around all the time yelling at people telling them how their lifestyle is wrong or constantly telling other people how they don’t use certain technologies.
  - nonrandomstring 3y ago
    That really flipped your wig didn't it? I'm intellectually curious, what you're so deeply invested in that was just threatened?
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      He’s right, people who always talk about they don’t use sites that require Javacript adds about as much to the conversation as people who show up in television conversations and say “I haven’t owned a television in 20 years, do people still watch TV?”
      - nonrandomstring 3y ago
        Forget about me for a moment. Does Javascript really mean something important to you?
        scarface_74 3y ago
        Not running JavaScript in 2024 is like putting a speed governor on your own car that limits you to going 35 miles an hour. It serves no useful purpose
        nonrandomstring 3y ago
        > It serves no useful purpose No useful purpose to who?
        scarface_74 3y ago
        What purpose do you have for removing functionality that has been part of the web since the 90s?
        nonrandomstring 3y ago
        Of course. What I do not want or need is code that's been part of the web since about 2016-2020, which is arbitrary code execution by complete strangers. Not even in a sandboxed disposable web browser. Now I suspect you'll want to tell me how actually Javascript is perfectly safe... and that's a conversation we can save for another day for the sake of both our dignity and friendship. I'm afraid it's my job to know otherwise.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        Well despite your appeal to authority… If you knew about that many exploits in the wild, surely you could (white hat) tell the company who created the browser or (black hat) make a lot of money by selling it to three letter agencies or private companies that sell it to three letter agencies. However, in the real world, a fully patched Android or iOS operating system - especially one that is in “lock down mode” is not any more susceptible to Zero day exploits than the number of other exploitable parts of the OS that you also don’t have any control over. And even if you only run open source software, how long was the OpenSSL bug in operating systems before it was discovered? Do you use your mobile’s messaging system? That’s been one of the primary targets of exploits that will target you directly.
BlueTemplar 3y ago
It's not completely unrelated I think. It's hard to me to see how a site with a vision like Quora (had) can continue existing for long after they start ignoring accessibility issues. Sounds like I should be looking for a Stack Overflow alternative too. (I'm suspecting that this might be related to the recent issue of better accessibility also making it easier to abuse for neural network based abusers, and it certainly looks like a hard problem to solve for the most popular websites.)
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Accessibility is important. But it doesn’t relate to success of a company. Besides, modern screen readers and even accessibility affordances on modern cell phones - at least iPhones - don’t struggle or care whether the site uses JavaScript
  - BlueTemplar 3y ago
    This is not what users seem to say ? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39211037 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39211037
  - nonrandomstring 3y ago
    > But it doesn’t relate to success of a company. I am wondering what you mean by "success" of a company here? Is that purely financial success? Or rate of growth or something like that?
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      Financial success or rate of growth
      - nonrandomstring 3y ago
        Right and those are good things. Noble things. There's nothing wrong with making a few pennies and jobs for others. But they are not the only things that define the success of a person, or a company. WOuld you agree?

nonrandomstring 3y ago

Surely my absence played no pivotal role in their downfall. I didn't even know Quora had "died". How sad. RIP Quora. But a tjpnz said: "They're also driving away contributors with more altruistic motivations" Now, I can agree with that, because I see a very strong alignment between the set of people who strongly uphold their own values and have self-respect, and those who stand up for the rights of others and have something to give. The "walled garden" internet basically drives away people who give a fuck.

zht 3y ago
One other way of saying “drives away people who give a fuck” could be saying those people are self-aggrandizing, self important, always yelling at the top of their lungs about their zealotry telling everyone at first opportunity about how they turn off JavaScript and don’t contribute the much to the discussion I liken people like this to the Amish. They balk at modernity as being incompatible with their beliefs. So they withdraw from the world and live life as they see fit. What they don’t do is go around all the time yelling at people telling them how their lifestyle is wrong or constantly telling other people how they don’t use certain technologies.
- nonrandomstring 3y ago
  That really flipped your wig didn't it? I'm intellectually curious, what you're so deeply invested in that was just threatened?
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    He’s right, people who always talk about they don’t use sites that require Javacript adds about as much to the conversation as people who show up in television conversations and say “I haven’t owned a television in 20 years, do people still watch TV?”
    - nonrandomstring 3y ago
      Forget about me for a moment. Does Javascript really mean something important to you?
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        Not running JavaScript in 2024 is like putting a speed governor on your own car that limits you to going 35 miles an hour. It serves no useful purpose
        nonrandomstring 3y ago
        > It serves no useful purpose No useful purpose to who?
        scarface_74 3y ago
        What purpose do you have for removing functionality that has been part of the web since the 90s?
        nonrandomstring 3y ago
        Of course. What I do not want or need is code that's been part of the web since about 2016-2020, which is arbitrary code execution by complete strangers. Not even in a sandboxed disposable web browser. Now I suspect you'll want to tell me how actually Javascript is perfectly safe... and that's a conversation we can save for another day for the sake of both our dignity and friendship. I'm afraid it's my job to know otherwise.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        Well despite your appeal to authority… If you knew about that many exploits in the wild, surely you could (white hat) tell the company who created the browser or (black hat) make a lot of money by selling it to three letter agencies or private companies that sell it to three letter agencies. However, in the real world, a fully patched Android or iOS operating system - especially one that is in “lock down mode” is not any more susceptible to Zero day exploits than the number of other exploitable parts of the OS that you also don’t have any control over. And even if you only run open source software, how long was the OpenSSL bug in operating systems before it was discovered? Do you use your mobile’s messaging system? That’s been one of the primary targets of exploits that will target you directly.

BlueTemplar 3y ago

It's not completely unrelated I think. It's hard to me to see how a site with a vision like Quora (had) can continue existing for long after they start ignoring accessibility issues. Sounds like I should be looking for a Stack Overflow alternative too. (I'm suspecting that this might be related to the recent issue of better accessibility also making it easier to abuse for neural network based abusers, and it certainly looks like a hard problem to solve for the most popular websites.)

scarface_74 3y ago
Accessibility is important. But it doesn’t relate to success of a company. Besides, modern screen readers and even accessibility affordances on modern cell phones - at least iPhones - don’t struggle or care whether the site uses JavaScript
- BlueTemplar 3y ago
  This is not what users seem to say ? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39211037 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39211037
- nonrandomstring 3y ago
  > But it doesn’t relate to success of a company. I am wondering what you mean by "success" of a company here? Is that purely financial success? Or rate of growth or something like that?
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    Financial success or rate of growth
    - nonrandomstring 3y ago
      Right and those are good things. Noble things. There's nothing wrong with making a few pennies and jobs for others. But they are not the only things that define the success of a person, or a company. WOuld you agree?