7 ms·

One of the happier things I’ve done for myself lately, at the advice of this forum, was to get a rock-solid, dumb, black-and-white Brother laser printer. It sit

by alwa 3y ago

One of the happier things I’ve done for myself lately, at the advice of this forum, was to get a rock-solid, dumb, black-and-white Brother laser printer. It sits there and just does its job and I never have to think about it. Does anyone have any tips as to the white-goods equivalents? Fridge, freezer, laundry machines, that kind of thing?

cmiller1 3y ago
A commercial fridge and a chest freezer.
- EasyMark 3y ago
  I bought a chest freezer and regretted it. Not because it failed but because it's too easy to bury stuff. Sold it to a buddy after 3 years for 1/3 the original cost. He's still using it, but he's a hunter/fisherman, going on 10 years now.
EasyMark 3y ago
buy the simplest devices you can. I believe whirlpool still makes some models in the USA. Evidently (according to reddit) never buy a Samsung or LG kitchen appliance. Whateve r you do get online (reddit and other places) and look for the specific model you're looking at, never buy on a whim, do research. You can eat out for a couple nights if the fridge goes.
- taude 3y ago
  I had an LG refrigerator that was a nightmare. I've had better luck since upgrading to a Bosche. I second Whirlpool, though, when I remodeled, I donated my working whirlpool washer and dryer that I inherited that was from circa 1980 or so....
- the_snooze 3y ago
  Exactly, simple is good. Software is not simple. Internet-connected software is definitely not simple. If you want anything to work reliably long-term, avoid devices with remote dependencies that the manufacturer will deprecate as soon as they get bored of maintaining them. Anything you want to last more than 5 years should be able to work completely offline.
  - EasyMark 3y ago
    Yes, analog stuff can be built tough too. See the vacuum cleaners that still work after 50 years lol, because they were overengineered. That's not nearly as profitable, though. So bean counters (fail early, but after warranty period, fail often) are ever at war with engineers who'd rather make a good product for a fair price. I have heard good things about Bosche but yet to buy anything. I will definitely consider them. I'm not really afraid of things made in Europe or USA, unless internet research proves otherwise.
    - jmcharnes 3y ago
      My uncle gave me his used (!) Bosch dryer 12 years ago. It’s outlasted every other appliance we’ve bought since then.
      - EasyMark 3y ago
        I inherited a 10 year old frigidaire washer and dryer combo, they are still going 10 years later, I haven't even had to replace any of the dials.
  - rchaud 3y ago
    Software can be simple too. I haven't needed anything more from my email client, photo editing, word processor or file manager apps for close to a decade. As far as I'm concerned these tools are feature complete and can be used without subscriptions that phone home constantly.
- ikari_pl 3y ago
  Samsung fridge, oven, microwave, and washer-dryer user here. Only the washer dryer was able to get online, and it's the only appliance that had to be replaced after 4 years, but not because of that. The build quality was so-so, it had problems drying and repair was considered unreasonable (leaky hot air ducts, fast wear on the bearing). The microwave spontaneously loses screws in the door though
  - Tijdreiziger 3y ago
    > The build quality was so-so […] and repair was considered unreasonable Par for the course for Samsung, in my experience.
- baking 3y ago
  Best Buy always has a low-end unit for rental property. They usually last for a good long time. I have a 30-year-old fridge that I would seriously consider getting repaired if it ever stopped working before I would buy a replacement.
taude 3y ago
I didn't get the advice do to this, but this is where I landed with my home printer needs, cheap Brother wirelsss B&W Laser Printer. Unfortunatley for appliances these days, to get fewer options you actually have to go up in price. It took me a long time, for example to even land on an oven that was minimalistic with knobs that you turn to set the temperature and turn it on (overall the oven isn't simple enough, because it still has too many logic boards that were replaced three times in the first year, until they got it right). I gave up my old gas stove that cost $400 new, worked for 25 years, without fail. Even when I was at the new appliance store, looking at the fancy stuff, the sales guy was impliying short life span, and repair contract needs, etc...
__loam 3y ago
Also if anyone knows a good brand for dumb TVs.
- naravara 3y ago
  I think they’re basically extinct on the high end. Your best option will be to get a smart TV and never set it up with a network connection. You’ll maybe want to do firmware updates now and then, but you can plug it in temporarily for those. It’ll still do more than you strictly want it to, but the most invasive behaviors will be off the table. Alternatively you can get a huge computer monitor and use that as your TV. But there’s some issues with that approach. Monitors are designed for sitting closer up and may not have as good viewing angles.
  - __loam 3y ago
    So unfortunate that we allowed TVs to get to this point.
  - Cthulhu_ 3y ago
    I've got an LG OLED TV, it's connected to the internet and I use the apps, but don't seem to have any annoyances like voice control or adverts; it allows you to use it without agreeing to all the T's and C's, and if you don't agree to the ones about advertising or voice activation it just works. YMMV, anecdotal, it might get patched out later, I don't know. I hope EU consumer and privacy laws are protecting me in this case.
- vraylle 3y ago
  Maybe a decent short-throw projector?
  - account42 3y ago
    A projector is not going to be able to compete with the picture quality of an emissive (i.e OLED) display.
noirscape 3y ago
Gonna sound very short through the corner, but german brands usually are pretty no bullshit. Also filter out anything that seems like it has a screen (or a more complicated screen than a simple LED panel) and doesn't need it. Your fridge and freezer don't need any more screens than a LED panel telling you the current temperature and the laundry machine can make due just fine with a LED panel + some buttons and turning knobs.
CPLX 3y ago
If you can afford it get Breville. I was really shocked at how much better quality their appliances were when I got my first one. The microwave controls for example are 10x more intuitive and thoughtful than anything I’d seen before.
- inferiorhuman 3y ago
  Ehhhhh. I got one of the fancy Breville toaster ovens because the (gas) oven in my apartment was so janky. If that's best in class, I'd hate to see the competition. The controls take 1–2 seconds to wake up, it makes the most horrendous beeping noises, the convection fan causes some funky resonance occasionally, the nonstick coating means you have to be careful cleaning it, the preheat timer is overly optimistic, the door spring is way too strong, etc, etc. It works but I definitely don't love it, and I'm left wondering how hard it would've really been to remedy most of the annoyances. For the price (and given the reviews) I was definitely expecting better.
billfor 3y ago
Speedqueen washers and dryers are simple and made in the US. Built like tanks. Double the cost of the cheap imports though.
- Der_Einzige 3y ago
  Big note on this - Only the top loaders are available in the old-school "ultra-reliable" version that I think many want. Top loaders are more rough on clothes than front loaders. Many reputable repair techs claim that LG makes very solid and reliable front loaders which are more gentle on clothes than the speed queen front loaders. I was dead set on a speed queen top loader and then my wife started showing me this stuff (specifically detailed tests showing speed queens top loaders being rough on clothes)
  - samsolomon 3y ago
    FWIW, we've had an LG front-loader for the last 5 years and have had zero issues. They do have a wifi capability to notify, but we've never connected them or felt the need to. If we moved, I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one.
  - throwaway09223 3y ago
    I've used both a top loader (currently a speed queen) and a front loader washer each for more than a decade. I have many t-shirts that are 20+ years old. Any wear from the washer seems negligible in comparison to the wear from actually wearing the clothes. There's no discernible difference. But there's a HUGE difference in terms of ability to clean. If I'm out doing yardwork and I have a pair of jeans with deep mud stains on the knees the old style top loader agitators can clean them just fine. The front loaders cannot no matter how many times I run them through. I end up having to scrub the jeans between my knuckles in the laundry sink - moderate agitation breaks up the mud and it rinses out easily. I suspect a lot of this "agitators are rough" nonsense comes from modern washers that don't use a sufficient amount of water. But the SQ has a setting to use the normal amount of water so it's a non-issue. Most analysis I've seen (eg: from Consumer Reports) refuses to consider top loaders with normal water usage settings -- the data is basically invalid. A lot of Consumer Reports analysis has this type of problem where the entire study is built on a false premise. Front loaders might be fine if your clothes never get dirty and only need occasional light rinsing. They're really terrible for actually cleaning dirt.
rzimmerman 3y ago
+1000 for the B+W Brother laser printer. I've had it for years and it always prints when asked, no drivers or weird software, works from any device on WiFi. I've never replaced the toner.
inferiorhuman 3y ago
That's going to vary by appliance. The appliance sales and repair shops that have youtube channels are a pretty good resource (Ben's Appliances and Junk, Yale Appliance, Boulevard Home, etc). But so is intuition. Buy whatever you can get service for. This rules out Samsung and LG, but in a smaller area this might rule out some other brands. In general avoid LG unless you want a front loading washer, and avoid Samsung in general. There aren't that many manufacturers. Bosch, Thermador, and Gaggenau; Whirlpool / Amana / KitchenAid / Maytag / Jennair; Electrolux / Frigidaire / Zanussi / Westinghouse /; etc etc etc. Ikea's all Frigidaire these days, and Kenmore you've gotta check the part number (typically Whirlpool or LG). Dishwasher – pretty much the universal opinion is Bosch. The quiet part is that their current lineup has design decisions you may not like (no heating element, no grinder). And they definitely feel cheap. But they're quiet and USA made. Washer – Speed Queen for a top loader, but again read up on the caveats. Whirlpool's commercial lineup is basically their consumer lineup from 20 years ago. They may be cheaper/easier to buy and service than Speed Queen. Lots of folks seem to love LG front loaders. Fridge – top freezers with no ice maker are about as simple, efficient, and reliable as you can get. But Whirlpool's current top freezers are junk. Supposedly Whirlpool's more expensive fridges are still decent. Other designs (e.g. bottom freezer) are more complicated and will be less efficient. At the higher end Bosch's big side by sides with the dual compressors are supposed to be pretty solid. Ranges – figure out what you want and go from there. Samsung is reportedly pretty bad with gas ranges, and obviously electronics aren't their strong suit either. Induction ranges will typically have more assemblies and fewer individual components to replace ($$$ to service). With induction the low end Frigidaires don't have any WiFi bullshit, but only the higher priced brands (and Samsung) will eschew the touchscreens. Microwaves – American kitchens tend to feature those big hulking units hung right over the stove. But counter top models are waaay cheaper and all mostly the same guts.

by alwa 3y ago

cmiller1 3y ago

A commercial fridge and a chest freezer.

EasyMark 3y ago
I bought a chest freezer and regretted it. Not because it failed but because it's too easy to bury stuff. Sold it to a buddy after 3 years for 1/3 the original cost. He's still using it, but he's a hunter/fisherman, going on 10 years now.

EasyMark 3y ago

buy the simplest devices you can. I believe whirlpool still makes some models in the USA. Evidently (according to reddit) never buy a Samsung or LG kitchen appliance. Whateve r you do get online (reddit and other places) and look for the specific model you're looking at, never buy on a whim, do research. You can eat out for a couple nights if the fridge goes.

taude 3y ago
I had an LG refrigerator that was a nightmare. I've had better luck since upgrading to a Bosche. I second Whirlpool, though, when I remodeled, I donated my working whirlpool washer and dryer that I inherited that was from circa 1980 or so....
the_snooze 3y ago
Exactly, simple is good. Software is not simple. Internet-connected software is definitely not simple. If you want anything to work reliably long-term, avoid devices with remote dependencies that the manufacturer will deprecate as soon as they get bored of maintaining them. Anything you want to last more than 5 years should be able to work completely offline.
- EasyMark 3y ago
  Yes, analog stuff can be built tough too. See the vacuum cleaners that still work after 50 years lol, because they were overengineered. That's not nearly as profitable, though. So bean counters (fail early, but after warranty period, fail often) are ever at war with engineers who'd rather make a good product for a fair price. I have heard good things about Bosche but yet to buy anything. I will definitely consider them. I'm not really afraid of things made in Europe or USA, unless internet research proves otherwise.
  - jmcharnes 3y ago
    My uncle gave me his used (!) Bosch dryer 12 years ago. It’s outlasted every other appliance we’ve bought since then.
    - EasyMark 3y ago
      I inherited a 10 year old frigidaire washer and dryer combo, they are still going 10 years later, I haven't even had to replace any of the dials.
- rchaud 3y ago
  Software can be simple too. I haven't needed anything more from my email client, photo editing, word processor or file manager apps for close to a decade. As far as I'm concerned these tools are feature complete and can be used without subscriptions that phone home constantly.
ikari_pl 3y ago
Samsung fridge, oven, microwave, and washer-dryer user here. Only the washer dryer was able to get online, and it's the only appliance that had to be replaced after 4 years, but not because of that. The build quality was so-so, it had problems drying and repair was considered unreasonable (leaky hot air ducts, fast wear on the bearing). The microwave spontaneously loses screws in the door though
- Tijdreiziger 3y ago
  > The build quality was so-so […] and repair was considered unreasonable Par for the course for Samsung, in my experience.
baking 3y ago
Best Buy always has a low-end unit for rental property. They usually last for a good long time. I have a 30-year-old fridge that I would seriously consider getting repaired if it ever stopped working before I would buy a replacement.

taude 3y ago

I didn't get the advice do to this, but this is where I landed with my home printer needs, cheap Brother wirelsss B&W Laser Printer. Unfortunatley for appliances these days, to get fewer options you actually have to go up in price. It took me a long time, for example to even land on an oven that was minimalistic with knobs that you turn to set the temperature and turn it on (overall the oven isn't simple enough, because it still has too many logic boards that were replaced three times in the first year, until they got it right). I gave up my old gas stove that cost $400 new, worked for 25 years, without fail. Even when I was at the new appliance store, looking at the fancy stuff, the sales guy was impliying short life span, and repair contract needs, etc...

__loam 3y ago

Also if anyone knows a good brand for dumb TVs.

naravara 3y ago
I think they’re basically extinct on the high end. Your best option will be to get a smart TV and never set it up with a network connection. You’ll maybe want to do firmware updates now and then, but you can plug it in temporarily for those. It’ll still do more than you strictly want it to, but the most invasive behaviors will be off the table. Alternatively you can get a huge computer monitor and use that as your TV. But there’s some issues with that approach. Monitors are designed for sitting closer up and may not have as good viewing angles.
- __loam 3y ago
  So unfortunate that we allowed TVs to get to this point.
- Cthulhu_ 3y ago
  I've got an LG OLED TV, it's connected to the internet and I use the apps, but don't seem to have any annoyances like voice control or adverts; it allows you to use it without agreeing to all the T's and C's, and if you don't agree to the ones about advertising or voice activation it just works. YMMV, anecdotal, it might get patched out later, I don't know. I hope EU consumer and privacy laws are protecting me in this case.
vraylle 3y ago
Maybe a decent short-throw projector?
- account42 3y ago
  A projector is not going to be able to compete with the picture quality of an emissive (i.e OLED) display.

noirscape 3y ago

Gonna sound very short through the corner, but german brands usually are pretty no bullshit. Also filter out anything that seems like it has a screen (or a more complicated screen than a simple LED panel) and doesn't need it. Your fridge and freezer don't need any more screens than a LED panel telling you the current temperature and the laundry machine can make due just fine with a LED panel + some buttons and turning knobs.

CPLX 3y ago

If you can afford it get Breville. I was really shocked at how much better quality their appliances were when I got my first one. The microwave controls for example are 10x more intuitive and thoughtful than anything I’d seen before.

inferiorhuman 3y ago
Ehhhhh. I got one of the fancy Breville toaster ovens because the (gas) oven in my apartment was so janky. If that's best in class, I'd hate to see the competition. The controls take 1–2 seconds to wake up, it makes the most horrendous beeping noises, the convection fan causes some funky resonance occasionally, the nonstick coating means you have to be careful cleaning it, the preheat timer is overly optimistic, the door spring is way too strong, etc, etc. It works but I definitely don't love it, and I'm left wondering how hard it would've really been to remedy most of the annoyances. For the price (and given the reviews) I was definitely expecting better.

billfor 3y ago

Speedqueen washers and dryers are simple and made in the US. Built like tanks. Double the cost of the cheap imports though.

Der_Einzige 3y ago
Big note on this - Only the top loaders are available in the old-school "ultra-reliable" version that I think many want. Top loaders are more rough on clothes than front loaders. Many reputable repair techs claim that LG makes very solid and reliable front loaders which are more gentle on clothes than the speed queen front loaders. I was dead set on a speed queen top loader and then my wife started showing me this stuff (specifically detailed tests showing speed queens top loaders being rough on clothes)
- samsolomon 3y ago
  FWIW, we've had an LG front-loader for the last 5 years and have had zero issues. They do have a wifi capability to notify, but we've never connected them or felt the need to. If we moved, I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one.
- throwaway09223 3y ago
  I've used both a top loader (currently a speed queen) and a front loader washer each for more than a decade. I have many t-shirts that are 20+ years old. Any wear from the washer seems negligible in comparison to the wear from actually wearing the clothes. There's no discernible difference. But there's a HUGE difference in terms of ability to clean. If I'm out doing yardwork and I have a pair of jeans with deep mud stains on the knees the old style top loader agitators can clean them just fine. The front loaders cannot no matter how many times I run them through. I end up having to scrub the jeans between my knuckles in the laundry sink - moderate agitation breaks up the mud and it rinses out easily. I suspect a lot of this "agitators are rough" nonsense comes from modern washers that don't use a sufficient amount of water. But the SQ has a setting to use the normal amount of water so it's a non-issue. Most analysis I've seen (eg: from Consumer Reports) refuses to consider top loaders with normal water usage settings -- the data is basically invalid. A lot of Consumer Reports analysis has this type of problem where the entire study is built on a false premise. Front loaders might be fine if your clothes never get dirty and only need occasional light rinsing. They're really terrible for actually cleaning dirt.

rzimmerman 3y ago

+1000 for the B+W Brother laser printer. I've had it for years and it always prints when asked, no drivers or weird software, works from any device on WiFi. I've never replaced the toner.

inferiorhuman 3y ago

That's going to vary by appliance. The appliance sales and repair shops that have youtube channels are a pretty good resource (Ben's Appliances and Junk, Yale Appliance, Boulevard Home, etc). But so is intuition. Buy whatever you can get service for. This rules out Samsung and LG, but in a smaller area this might rule out some other brands. In general avoid LG unless you want a front loading washer, and avoid Samsung in general. There aren't that many manufacturers. Bosch, Thermador, and Gaggenau; Whirlpool / Amana / KitchenAid / Maytag / Jennair; Electrolux / Frigidaire / Zanussi / Westinghouse /; etc etc etc. Ikea's all Frigidaire these days, and Kenmore you've gotta check the part number (typically Whirlpool or LG). Dishwasher – pretty much the universal opinion is Bosch. The quiet part is that their current lineup has design decisions you may not like (no heating element, no grinder). And they definitely feel cheap. But they're quiet and USA made. Washer – Speed Queen for a top loader, but again read up on the caveats. Whirlpool's commercial lineup is basically their consumer lineup from 20 years ago. They may be cheaper/easier to buy and service than Speed Queen. Lots of folks seem to love LG front loaders. Fridge – top freezers with no ice maker are about as simple, efficient, and reliable as you can get. But Whirlpool's current top freezers are junk. Supposedly Whirlpool's more expensive fridges are still decent. Other designs (e.g. bottom freezer) are more complicated and will be less efficient. At the higher end Bosch's big side by sides with the dual compressors are supposed to be pretty solid. Ranges – figure out what you want and go from there. Samsung is reportedly pretty bad with gas ranges, and obviously electronics aren't their strong suit either. Induction ranges will typically have more assemblies and fewer individual components to replace ($$$ to service). With induction the low end Frigidaires don't have any WiFi bullshit, but only the higher priced brands (and Samsung) will eschew the touchscreens. Microwaves – American kitchens tend to feature those big hulking units hung right over the stove. But counter top models are waaay cheaper and all mostly the same guts.