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I use Linux and I’ll know I will be crucified for saying it… but Outlook’s base UI is just better and I might reconsider TB when I can make it look even remotel

I use Linux and I’ll know I will be crucified for saying it… but Outlook’s base UI is just better and I might reconsider TB when I can make it look even remotely like Outlook. It’s not big things. It’s spacing, fonts, choice of pictograms and their locations. Some is opinion, and some is just functionally better. In fact, I stand by that if I were them, I would be pushing as hard as possible for an Outlook Theme for people just coming in or back. Office 365 is too common to ignore - considering the native Exchange support post here.

xenophonf 3y ago
Outlook has had the better mail UI since the late 90s at least, and I'm saying that as a committed (ding) Gnus user.
brnt 3y ago
Work forces me to use Outlook (2016), but for anything else you can pry Kmail from my cold dead hands.
tilwidnk 3y ago
I want Thunderbird to look like Thunderbird, not Outlook. There's nothing superior about Outlook. When Microsoft made the ridiculous decision to stuck the search text box in the Title Bar, it was clear they have no clue any more what they're doing. Then Thunderbird recently followed suit. Dumb and dumber. At least TB lets us fix it. Now they're focusing on Exchange support when the best email servers on the planet have nothing to do with Microsoft? Dumb and dumber redux. Time to look for a new email client on the Linux Desktop.
- tomsmeding 3y ago
  I get your sentiment, and while some may disagree (most of this is subjective, anyway), there will be many who agree with most of your points here. However: > Now they're focusing on Exchange support when the best email servers on the planet have nothing to do with Microsoft? People don't want Exchange because they like Exchange. For people who like Microsoft, the very last thing they care about is that their email client communicates with their server over Exchange. This feature is for the unfortunate Linux fans, like you, who are stuck with a job that requires them to interact with a Microsoft server. That's not dumb, that's a smart move on the TB side (well, lucky, perhaps, that people are willing to work on it, more than being smart) to allow users to use TB in the first place. If you don't use Exchange you won't mind the support (barring perhaps reduced development elsewhere), but it will let many people use TB where they otherwise _could not_ without plugins.
- jraph 3y ago
  > Now they're focusing on Exchange support when the best email servers on the planet have nothing to do with Microsoft? Well, I guess lack of exchange support in Thunderbird might blog migrations to Thunderbird / Linux on the desktop in places using Exchange. If users are already using Thunderbird, switching from Exchange to a regular mail server might be more easy: the UI doesn't change. (now, I don't see many places using Exchange switching to Thunderbird, but that certainly opens a migration path)
  - SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
    >now, I don't see many places using Exchange switching to Thunderbird, Because you couldn’t. There was a TB extension “OWL” but it wasn’t good enough for me, still lacked things like the contact cards with data from your Active Directory install, and other default Outlook features. So the point for me is now you could take that path - maybe.
    - jraph 3y ago
      Ah, I meant I don't imagine places using Exchange switching to Thunderbird (in the future). Sorry for the confusion. But I don't know really.
lol768 3y ago
> It’s not big things. It’s spacing, fonts, choice of pictograms and their locations. Some is opinion, and some is just functionally better. Thunderbird had a great looking (in my opinion) proposed new UI from the designer for the Supernova project, but it never actually shipped in 115 which was a real shame. I'd say they got about half-way there when they cut the release. There's some more context here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36670946 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36670946 I'm hoping in due course we'll start to see more of the original design start to be realised.
WirelessGigabit 3y ago
The sad part is that that UI is going away, to be replaced by a PWA. And the PWA is VERY feature incomplete: https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/s/up6RcfFDMk https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/s/up6RcfFDMk
- SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
  The UI is about the same, or an evolution. It’s the UX that is a damn travesty.

xenophonf 3y ago

Outlook has had the better mail UI since the late 90s at least, and I'm saying that as a committed (ding) Gnus user.

brnt 3y ago

Work forces me to use Outlook (2016), but for anything else you can pry Kmail from my cold dead hands.

tilwidnk 3y ago

I want Thunderbird to look like Thunderbird, not Outlook. There's nothing superior about Outlook. When Microsoft made the ridiculous decision to stuck the search text box in the Title Bar, it was clear they have no clue any more what they're doing. Then Thunderbird recently followed suit. Dumb and dumber. At least TB lets us fix it. Now they're focusing on Exchange support when the best email servers on the planet have nothing to do with Microsoft? Dumb and dumber redux. Time to look for a new email client on the Linux Desktop.

tomsmeding 3y ago
I get your sentiment, and while some may disagree (most of this is subjective, anyway), there will be many who agree with most of your points here. However: > Now they're focusing on Exchange support when the best email servers on the planet have nothing to do with Microsoft? People don't want Exchange because they like Exchange. For people who like Microsoft, the very last thing they care about is that their email client communicates with their server over Exchange. This feature is for the unfortunate Linux fans, like you, who are stuck with a job that requires them to interact with a Microsoft server. That's not dumb, that's a smart move on the TB side (well, lucky, perhaps, that people are willing to work on it, more than being smart) to allow users to use TB in the first place. If you don't use Exchange you won't mind the support (barring perhaps reduced development elsewhere), but it will let many people use TB where they otherwise _could not_ without plugins.
jraph 3y ago
> Now they're focusing on Exchange support when the best email servers on the planet have nothing to do with Microsoft? Well, I guess lack of exchange support in Thunderbird might blog migrations to Thunderbird / Linux on the desktop in places using Exchange. If users are already using Thunderbird, switching from Exchange to a regular mail server might be more easy: the UI doesn't change. (now, I don't see many places using Exchange switching to Thunderbird, but that certainly opens a migration path)
- SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
  >now, I don't see many places using Exchange switching to Thunderbird, Because you couldn’t. There was a TB extension “OWL” but it wasn’t good enough for me, still lacked things like the contact cards with data from your Active Directory install, and other default Outlook features. So the point for me is now you could take that path - maybe.
  - jraph 3y ago
    Ah, I meant I don't imagine places using Exchange switching to Thunderbird (in the future). Sorry for the confusion. But I don't know really.

lol768 3y ago

> It’s not big things. It’s spacing, fonts, choice of pictograms and their locations. Some is opinion, and some is just functionally better. Thunderbird had a great looking (in my opinion) proposed new UI from the designer for the Supernova project, but it never actually shipped in 115 which was a real shame. I'd say they got about half-way there when they cut the release. There's some more context here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36670946 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36670946 I'm hoping in due course we'll start to see more of the original design start to be realised.

WirelessGigabit 3y ago

The sad part is that that UI is going away, to be replaced by a PWA. And the PWA is VERY feature incomplete: https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/s/up6RcfFDMk https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/s/up6RcfFDMk

SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
The UI is about the same, or an evolution. It’s the UX that is a damn travesty.