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I Denmark we are removing the 1000kr bill as of May 2025. from then on the highest bill. is 500kr which is roughly equal to 80 usd. Denmark Is the most cashles

I Denmark we are removing the 1000kr bill as of May 2025. from then on the highest bill. is 500kr which is roughly equal to 80 usd. Denmark Is the most cashless society I have yet experiences (and I have been traveling a fair bit). This comes with pros and cons. and I think the reason why it works is because of an incredibly high social trust.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
Besides high social trust, I assume also a great IT infrastructure with guaranteed high uptime, a tech literate population willing to adopt new technology and not be stubborn to change, plus a small business environment not focused on cash driven tax dodging, like in the German speaking countries.
- madsbuch 3y ago
  yep, especially because a lot of people use debit cards that only work when online. and yes, even on small markets merchants charge with a handheld terminal.
- forinti 3y ago
  I live in a middle-income country and it's now not unusual to see beggars with card machines at the red light.
  - dazc 3y ago
    In the UK we have anti-money laundering rules for banks commonly known as 'know your customer' where they are obliged to inquire about how one's business works. I can imagine a few interesting conversions as a result.
    - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
      crypto was probably a godsend.
Philpax 3y ago
I moved to Sweden ~2.5 years ago and I can count the number of times I've used cash on one hand. It's definitely less private, but the convenience is unmatched. Honestly, I don't even know what the modern Swedish notes look like now!
- croes 3y ago
  Sweden also has pretty public tax income records.
- ACow_Adonis 3y ago
  Lol, I actually experienced something similar in Australia recently trying to sell second hand goods. Of course I asked for payment in cash, which the buyers duelly provided. But it occurred to me as I observed the new $50 notes in my hand, which were of a new design that I'd never seen before that it had actually been so long since i'd handled physical currency that I wasn't really sure whether the notes in my hand were legitimate designs or not.
- caeril 3y ago
  > but the convenience is unmatched I've actually timed this. It takes ~8 seconds to fish out the card, insert it, wait for approval, and replace it in the wallet. Roughly similar time frame for unlocking your phone and approving the NFC transaction. It takes ~15 seconds to fish out a C-note, insert it into the self-checkout bill accepter, retrieve the change, and put the change into my wallet. Delta of 7 seconds. Let's say you're a typical tech worker, and your time is worth on the order of $120/hr. 7 seconds is 23 cents to you. Let's further assume you just paid 23 cents to buy $80 worth of groceries as a non-convenience fee so the data brokers and/or the Feds don't know your precise shopping habits. You just paid a 0.3% "transaction fee" for your privacy. The Visa network takes on the order of 2+% to DESTROY your privacy. You're getting a really raw deal here, by choosing this "convenience".
  - seszett 3y ago
    > You just paid a 0.3% "transaction fee" for your privacy. The Visa network takes on the order of 2+% to DESTROY your privacy. You're getting a really raw deal here. I assume it is not the case in Sweden or most of Europe. Here in Belgium, the fees are maximum 5 cent or 0,2% whichever is lowest (apparently, to be lowered to 0,1%). It's a bit higher in France at 0,2% + up to 1% or so bank fees depending on the shop's bank, but that's still lower than anything I'm reading in this thread. So at least here in Belgium it's cheaper for me to use a card, according to your calculation. Which doesn't take into account what I must do with the change, as I can't always just use a new note and sometimes I'll have to count and use that change. I also have to go out of my way to find an ATM.
yaky 3y ago
In the US, we have $100 and $50 bills officially in circulation, but many places will refuse to take them as payment, even though they will take smaller denominations. I believe this is usually described as avoiding counterfeit money and/or not keeping more than a certain amount of cash in the register.
- dazc 3y ago
  In the UK we have £50 notes which are notoriously difficult to use as cash since there are many counterfeits in circulation and it's hard to differentiate between genuine and fake. We also have notes issued by Scottish banks which are legal tender throughout the UK but good luck finding a retailer outside of Scotland willing to accept them.
  - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
    > We also have notes issued by Scottish banks which are legal tender throughout the UK but good luck finding a retailer outside of Scotland willing to accept them. Yeah that shit should be illegal.
forinti 3y ago
I have a hard time getting change, because in my country ATMs like to spit out large denominations. But for my daily activities (the bus, really) I need change. In the cases where I would need a large bill I use credit cards. The highest denomination in my country is worth about US$40, but that is a large amount of money. Yesterday I payed for lunch for 4 with about half that. So I wish the larger denominations would just go away.
- ghaff 3y ago
  On the rare occasions I use them--mostly when traveling--I've noticed some ATMs offering a choice of denominations. But it was certainly true historically that ATMs tended to spit out bills in denominations that were at least at the high end of what people used for day to day transactions.
  - forinti 3y ago
    The ATMs I use use the least number of bills for the amount you asked. If they have lower denominations, I sometimes make two withdrawals in order to avoid the larger bills.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      I don't think I've ever seen an ATM in the US spit out larger than $20s which is basically the largest denomination you can count on a store taking even though there are $50s and $100s in general circulation. (Which has essentially been the case for many decades.)
      - astura 3y ago
        Casino atms stock 100s, but they are a special case.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
> high social trust. With the rise of ML, and people salivating over the data inherent in currency flow, I suspect that trust may soon go the way of the dodo. In the US, anything that makes money tends to get helped along. Regulators look the other way (until some knucklehead starts stealing from rich people), and even the lowest-level employees become "stans" of their bosses. I am a believer in the promise of socialism, but, like communism, it's something that works on paper, but people screw it up. Capitalism works. It does that, because it is completely in line with human behavior. Human behavior is pretty awful, when we don't have external restraints, so unrestrained capitalism is pretty awful. Despite that cynical stance, I do have hope for the future. It will almost certainly make me uncomfortable, when it comes (as my own generation did, for my predecessors), but I think we'll prevail.
- madsbuch 3y ago
  it is dangerous to assume that the US culture is the default culture. social trust is not a new thing in Scandinavia. it has been a part of the society for centuries. Denmark is arguably also more capitalistic than the US. the median wealth is almost double that of the US. hence the Danish system, despite some of the world's highest taxes, easier allow people to build wealth.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
    I understand. I was raised overseas, and am intimately familiar with non-US cultures. I love Scandinavian socialism, but I have also watched as US-style capitalism has permeated even the most resistant societies. The Internet, and the platform it provides for social contagion, are probably responsible for that. Additionally, it is easy to have socialism, with a relatively heterogeneous population, but nations like the US and, increasingly, many other nations, make it a lot more difficult.
    - madsbuch 3y ago
      I am curious, what do you mean with US-style capitalism? Denmark, and EU by extension, is far from perfect. But I do see less oligarchy-leaning tendencies in the EU vs. the US. and I don't see that this is currently changing, quite the opposite. My immediate understanding of US capitalism would be an oligarchic type of capitalism where regulation favour those with wealth already.
xenator 3y ago
I have visited Denmark and this is definitely last country I want to live. Just simple the worst. I've lived and visited about 40-50 countries in my life, maybe more, it is hard to count. For me Denmark is best example of modern slavery with brainwashed slaves. I was born in USSR and current Denmark looks very similar. The values of society are too far from what I respect. I believe if this work in Denmark all other countries should avoid it with all costs.
- kredd 3y ago
  It’s literally the first time I’ve heard anyone saying this about Denmark. I’ve been to a ton of places, including Denmark, and can’t even understand why would you have such opinion. Care to explain?
- alkonaut 3y ago
  That’s a three paragraph rant but provides zero examples about what values it is you object to.
ACS_Solver 3y ago
I'm in Sweden, a strong contender for the most cashless country, and I don't know what the banknotes look like. They were changed some 5 or 6 years ago and I haven't paid with or even withdrawn cash since then. For illustration, cash is generally not accepted outside of grocery stores and some chains. For a typical restaurant, coffee shop or takeaway there's very little chance they take cash. Street vendors may take cash but will definitely have a proper cashless payment method. I really don't like cash and am happy to see it basically dead in the country. I'm also very concerned about privacy, I'm that sort of HN person - never had a Facebook account, run self-hosted email for 20 years, use Signal for messaging as much as I can, etc. But I don't think cash is a good solution to privacy. I'd rather see laws and (better) cryptocurrencies as the privacy toolkit. One common concern I see from US-centric articles is about your transaction history being sold for ad targeting, etc. That at least is illegal here. A store is not allowed to track your history of purchases or similar unless you opt in, such as via a store loyalty card. Banks are not allowed to disclose anything about your accounts except in some investigatory contexts, but definitely not for commercial purposes. So neither "the store will track my purchases because I pay by card" nor "the bank will sell my history to advertisers", which would be major issues for me, are actual concerns.
- coldtea 3y ago
  >I'm also very concerned about privacy, I'm that sort of HN person - never had a Facebook account, run self-hosted email for 20 years, use Signal for messaging as much as I can, etc. But I don't think cash is a good solution to privacy. I'd rather see laws and (better) cryptocurrencies as the privacy toolkit. We wont see those. Instead we'll see more enchroachment of privacy - because cash was actually the solution: existing for millenia, trusted, no transaction fees, no monitoring of purchases, non remotely invalidated, not requiring fancy technology to use, works from buying a car to getting some help as a beggar on the streets. >That at least is illegal here. Would that ever stopped companies pulling that shit?
  - Yujf 3y ago
    The fees of cash are considerable for many businesses. At least where I live returning money to the bank is not free.
varjag 3y ago
Traveling from Norway 10-15 years ago Denmark was fairly backwards when it came to electronic payments.
- slau 3y ago
  10-15 years is also an insanely large amount of time when it comes to digitalisation. 15 years ago IE6 received its final stable release, but it would still go on to be supported for another 8 years. That’s also the same year Chrome was released, but it would take another 4 years before it overtook IE in market share. I used cash semi regularly when I moved to Denmark nearly 10 years ago. I haven’t touched Danish currency in the last 3-4 years.
  - varjag 3y ago
    Put it other way 10 years ago we had Python 3.4, Rust and Windows 8.1 :) What I'm saying is Norway at the time was pretty much where Denmark is now. Even 20 years ago you could go by pretty much cashless except one way bus tickets in certain cities. That said I doubt Denmark has any lower level of social trust than Norway so it's unlikely the cause. As the locals then explained credit card transaction fees were held at unsustainable levels and Denmark lacked its own national clearance network.
    - slau 3y ago
      Not sure what you mean with “national clearance network”. With regards to CC fees, there have been none for (DanKort) cardholders since 2005. I haven’t had a non-DanKort rejected since 2016 or 2017, and the only times that I pay for card fees is when I use the CCs issued to my companies. Yet somehow, you still can’t buy tickets on the bus with a CC, only cash or apps.
      - varjag 3y ago
        Yeah I imagine apps have filled the niche that for whatever reason was unserviceable by credit cards.
wiredfool 3y ago
My eldest has gone off to uni in Scotland this year, and he’s literally spent no cash at all in his time there. The only cash he uses are 1 pound coins for the gym lockers, and they return when you’re done. He spent 3 months in Germany last year, and used cash for just about everything.
- GordonS 3y ago
  Scot here! Especially since the advent of Apple and Google Pay, more and more people use cashless payments - with our phones always on our person these days, it's very convenient. There are still some holdouts though - it's only recently I've started to see taxis that routinely accept card payments, and without a ludicrous extra processing fee. I've travelled a lot, and I'd say Norway, Sweden and Denmark are all way ahead of Scotland in terms of cashless.
PrimeMcFly 3y ago
Just as there are checks and balances against a prime minister becoming a dictator, there should be checks and balances against a state abusing a digital currency. Removing cash makes that hard.
fsckboy 3y ago
how do cashless transactions require social trust? you trust your bank, I trust my bank, and we don't have to trust each other at all. if you can't trust your bank, you are SOL.
- madsbuch 3y ago
  You trust that your spending habits are not shared with malicious actors. You trust that the government does use your data maliciously. You trust there is a fair dispute process, etc. There are plenty of countries where I would not dare to register certain spends on my card or where the risk of using cards would be considered high.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

Besides high social trust, I assume also a great IT infrastructure with guaranteed high uptime, a tech literate population willing to adopt new technology and not be stubborn to change, plus a small business environment not focused on cash driven tax dodging, like in the German speaking countries.

madsbuch 3y ago
yep, especially because a lot of people use debit cards that only work when online. and yes, even on small markets merchants charge with a handheld terminal.
forinti 3y ago
I live in a middle-income country and it's now not unusual to see beggars with card machines at the red light.
- dazc 3y ago
  In the UK we have anti-money laundering rules for banks commonly known as 'know your customer' where they are obliged to inquire about how one's business works. I can imagine a few interesting conversions as a result.
  - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
    crypto was probably a godsend.

Philpax 3y ago

I moved to Sweden ~2.5 years ago and I can count the number of times I've used cash on one hand. It's definitely less private, but the convenience is unmatched. Honestly, I don't even know what the modern Swedish notes look like now!

croes 3y ago
Sweden also has pretty public tax income records.
ACow_Adonis 3y ago
Lol, I actually experienced something similar in Australia recently trying to sell second hand goods. Of course I asked for payment in cash, which the buyers duelly provided. But it occurred to me as I observed the new $50 notes in my hand, which were of a new design that I'd never seen before that it had actually been so long since i'd handled physical currency that I wasn't really sure whether the notes in my hand were legitimate designs or not.
caeril 3y ago
> but the convenience is unmatched I've actually timed this. It takes ~8 seconds to fish out the card, insert it, wait for approval, and replace it in the wallet. Roughly similar time frame for unlocking your phone and approving the NFC transaction. It takes ~15 seconds to fish out a C-note, insert it into the self-checkout bill accepter, retrieve the change, and put the change into my wallet. Delta of 7 seconds. Let's say you're a typical tech worker, and your time is worth on the order of $120/hr. 7 seconds is 23 cents to you. Let's further assume you just paid 23 cents to buy $80 worth of groceries as a non-convenience fee so the data brokers and/or the Feds don't know your precise shopping habits. You just paid a 0.3% "transaction fee" for your privacy. The Visa network takes on the order of 2+% to DESTROY your privacy. You're getting a really raw deal here, by choosing this "convenience".
- seszett 3y ago
  > You just paid a 0.3% "transaction fee" for your privacy. The Visa network takes on the order of 2+% to DESTROY your privacy. You're getting a really raw deal here. I assume it is not the case in Sweden or most of Europe. Here in Belgium, the fees are maximum 5 cent or 0,2% whichever is lowest (apparently, to be lowered to 0,1%). It's a bit higher in France at 0,2% + up to 1% or so bank fees depending on the shop's bank, but that's still lower than anything I'm reading in this thread. So at least here in Belgium it's cheaper for me to use a card, according to your calculation. Which doesn't take into account what I must do with the change, as I can't always just use a new note and sometimes I'll have to count and use that change. I also have to go out of my way to find an ATM.

yaky 3y ago

In the US, we have $100 and $50 bills officially in circulation, but many places will refuse to take them as payment, even though they will take smaller denominations. I believe this is usually described as avoiding counterfeit money and/or not keeping more than a certain amount of cash in the register.

dazc 3y ago
In the UK we have £50 notes which are notoriously difficult to use as cash since there are many counterfeits in circulation and it's hard to differentiate between genuine and fake. We also have notes issued by Scottish banks which are legal tender throughout the UK but good luck finding a retailer outside of Scotland willing to accept them.
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  > We also have notes issued by Scottish banks which are legal tender throughout the UK but good luck finding a retailer outside of Scotland willing to accept them. Yeah that shit should be illegal.

forinti 3y ago

I have a hard time getting change, because in my country ATMs like to spit out large denominations. But for my daily activities (the bus, really) I need change. In the cases where I would need a large bill I use credit cards. The highest denomination in my country is worth about US$40, but that is a large amount of money. Yesterday I payed for lunch for 4 with about half that. So I wish the larger denominations would just go away.

ghaff 3y ago
On the rare occasions I use them--mostly when traveling--I've noticed some ATMs offering a choice of denominations. But it was certainly true historically that ATMs tended to spit out bills in denominations that were at least at the high end of what people used for day to day transactions.
- forinti 3y ago
  The ATMs I use use the least number of bills for the amount you asked. If they have lower denominations, I sometimes make two withdrawals in order to avoid the larger bills.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    I don't think I've ever seen an ATM in the US spit out larger than $20s which is basically the largest denomination you can count on a store taking even though there are $50s and $100s in general circulation. (Which has essentially been the case for many decades.)
    - astura 3y ago
      Casino atms stock 100s, but they are a special case.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]

ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago

> high social trust. With the rise of ML, and people salivating over the data inherent in currency flow, I suspect that trust may soon go the way of the dodo. In the US, anything that makes money tends to get helped along. Regulators look the other way (until some knucklehead starts stealing from rich people), and even the lowest-level employees become "stans" of their bosses. I am a believer in the promise of socialism, but, like communism, it's something that works on paper, but people screw it up. Capitalism works. It does that, because it is completely in line with human behavior. Human behavior is pretty awful, when we don't have external restraints, so unrestrained capitalism is pretty awful. Despite that cynical stance, I do have hope for the future. It will almost certainly make me uncomfortable, when it comes (as my own generation did, for my predecessors), but I think we'll prevail.

madsbuch 3y ago
it is dangerous to assume that the US culture is the default culture. social trust is not a new thing in Scandinavia. it has been a part of the society for centuries. Denmark is arguably also more capitalistic than the US. the median wealth is almost double that of the US. hence the Danish system, despite some of the world's highest taxes, easier allow people to build wealth.
- ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
  I understand. I was raised overseas, and am intimately familiar with non-US cultures. I love Scandinavian socialism, but I have also watched as US-style capitalism has permeated even the most resistant societies. The Internet, and the platform it provides for social contagion, are probably responsible for that. Additionally, it is easy to have socialism, with a relatively heterogeneous population, but nations like the US and, increasingly, many other nations, make it a lot more difficult.
  - madsbuch 3y ago
    I am curious, what do you mean with US-style capitalism? Denmark, and EU by extension, is far from perfect. But I do see less oligarchy-leaning tendencies in the EU vs. the US. and I don't see that this is currently changing, quite the opposite. My immediate understanding of US capitalism would be an oligarchic type of capitalism where regulation favour those with wealth already.

xenator 3y ago

I have visited Denmark and this is definitely last country I want to live. Just simple the worst. I've lived and visited about 40-50 countries in my life, maybe more, it is hard to count. For me Denmark is best example of modern slavery with brainwashed slaves. I was born in USSR and current Denmark looks very similar. The values of society are too far from what I respect. I believe if this work in Denmark all other countries should avoid it with all costs.

kredd 3y ago
It’s literally the first time I’ve heard anyone saying this about Denmark. I’ve been to a ton of places, including Denmark, and can’t even understand why would you have such opinion. Care to explain?
alkonaut 3y ago
That’s a three paragraph rant but provides zero examples about what values it is you object to.

ACS_Solver 3y ago

I'm in Sweden, a strong contender for the most cashless country, and I don't know what the banknotes look like. They were changed some 5 or 6 years ago and I haven't paid with or even withdrawn cash since then. For illustration, cash is generally not accepted outside of grocery stores and some chains. For a typical restaurant, coffee shop or takeaway there's very little chance they take cash. Street vendors may take cash but will definitely have a proper cashless payment method. I really don't like cash and am happy to see it basically dead in the country. I'm also very concerned about privacy, I'm that sort of HN person - never had a Facebook account, run self-hosted email for 20 years, use Signal for messaging as much as I can, etc. But I don't think cash is a good solution to privacy. I'd rather see laws and (better) cryptocurrencies as the privacy toolkit. One common concern I see from US-centric articles is about your transaction history being sold for ad targeting, etc. That at least is illegal here. A store is not allowed to track your history of purchases or similar unless you opt in, such as via a store loyalty card. Banks are not allowed to disclose anything about your accounts except in some investigatory contexts, but definitely not for commercial purposes. So neither "the store will track my purchases because I pay by card" nor "the bank will sell my history to advertisers", which would be major issues for me, are actual concerns.

coldtea 3y ago
>I'm also very concerned about privacy, I'm that sort of HN person - never had a Facebook account, run self-hosted email for 20 years, use Signal for messaging as much as I can, etc. But I don't think cash is a good solution to privacy. I'd rather see laws and (better) cryptocurrencies as the privacy toolkit. We wont see those. Instead we'll see more enchroachment of privacy - because cash was actually the solution: existing for millenia, trusted, no transaction fees, no monitoring of purchases, non remotely invalidated, not requiring fancy technology to use, works from buying a car to getting some help as a beggar on the streets. >That at least is illegal here. Would that ever stopped companies pulling that shit?
- Yujf 3y ago
  The fees of cash are considerable for many businesses. At least where I live returning money to the bank is not free.

varjag 3y ago

Traveling from Norway 10-15 years ago Denmark was fairly backwards when it came to electronic payments.

slau 3y ago
10-15 years is also an insanely large amount of time when it comes to digitalisation. 15 years ago IE6 received its final stable release, but it would still go on to be supported for another 8 years. That’s also the same year Chrome was released, but it would take another 4 years before it overtook IE in market share. I used cash semi regularly when I moved to Denmark nearly 10 years ago. I haven’t touched Danish currency in the last 3-4 years.
- varjag 3y ago
  Put it other way 10 years ago we had Python 3.4, Rust and Windows 8.1 :) What I'm saying is Norway at the time was pretty much where Denmark is now. Even 20 years ago you could go by pretty much cashless except one way bus tickets in certain cities. That said I doubt Denmark has any lower level of social trust than Norway so it's unlikely the cause. As the locals then explained credit card transaction fees were held at unsustainable levels and Denmark lacked its own national clearance network.
  - slau 3y ago
    Not sure what you mean with “national clearance network”. With regards to CC fees, there have been none for (DanKort) cardholders since 2005. I haven’t had a non-DanKort rejected since 2016 or 2017, and the only times that I pay for card fees is when I use the CCs issued to my companies. Yet somehow, you still can’t buy tickets on the bus with a CC, only cash or apps.
    - varjag 3y ago
      Yeah I imagine apps have filled the niche that for whatever reason was unserviceable by credit cards.

wiredfool 3y ago

My eldest has gone off to uni in Scotland this year, and he’s literally spent no cash at all in his time there. The only cash he uses are 1 pound coins for the gym lockers, and they return when you’re done. He spent 3 months in Germany last year, and used cash for just about everything.

GordonS 3y ago
Scot here! Especially since the advent of Apple and Google Pay, more and more people use cashless payments - with our phones always on our person these days, it's very convenient. There are still some holdouts though - it's only recently I've started to see taxis that routinely accept card payments, and without a ludicrous extra processing fee. I've travelled a lot, and I'd say Norway, Sweden and Denmark are all way ahead of Scotland in terms of cashless.

PrimeMcFly 3y ago

Just as there are checks and balances against a prime minister becoming a dictator, there should be checks and balances against a state abusing a digital currency. Removing cash makes that hard.

fsckboy 3y ago

how do cashless transactions require social trust? you trust your bank, I trust my bank, and we don't have to trust each other at all. if you can't trust your bank, you are SOL.

madsbuch 3y ago
You trust that your spending habits are not shared with malicious actors. You trust that the government does use your data maliciously. You trust there is a fair dispute process, etc. There are plenty of countries where I would not dare to register certain spends on my card or where the risk of using cards would be considered high.