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Man. I really wish we didn't have language discrimination. Perl is just so fast to write and has such a sizeable ecosystem of modules, and such great docs, that

Man. I really wish we didn't have language discrimination. Perl is just so fast to write and has such a sizeable ecosystem of modules, and such great docs, that I can produce any program in Perl faster than I can write it in Python, purely because it's more expressive in a smaller space and has fewer restrictions. But no team I'll ever be on in my life will agree to work with me on a Perl project, because everyone just "knows" Perl is taboo. People laugh at me when I suggest using it.

em-bee 3y ago
that's not just a perl problem. you may face the same issue with php and also any lesser known language, if only for different reasons. either way though, popularity wins
smartmic 3y ago
The best thing about Perl in comparison to Python is that programs written in Perl age very well. You can run decades old scripts without any updates, versioning and/or dependency hell or other headaches. Even better, also across platforms. I stopped using Python because of the anti-experiences with all that.
- gbacon 3y ago
  Perl’s documentation runs circles around Python’s.
  - collyw 3y ago
    Was thinking that sounds strange, but that's because 90% of my Python is done in Django (which has excellent docs). Python's own documentation is horrible to read for some reason. Whenever I need to remind myself of how to use regexes in Python, it's the first place that comes up, followed by finding a tutorial elsewhere.
burntsushi 3y ago
What if people don't like Perl for real reasons and not just because of knee-jerk taboo? I've actually written a few Perl programs and I really did not enjoy the experience at all. Its regex engine has good Unicode support, if you can figure out how to enable it. I'll give it that.
- kstrauser 3y ago
  I’m with you there. I don’t hate Perl. I don’t think it’s taboo. I just can’t think of a scenario where I’d want to use it over another tool. Perl was the first non-C language I wrote significant amounts of Unix code in. In particular, I wrote lots of web and server admin projects with it. I know Perl well enough to 1) appreciate why people still like using it, and 2) not want to use it myself.
BrandoElFollito 3y ago
I used to write in Perl 20 years ago. It started really nice, with well-structured code. And then when I learned this and that, the code started to be more concise, to the point of being impossible to understand for the author (me) after a week. I liked it though and I realize that this is not Perl's fault but mine. Still, giving too much power to less experienced devs without having them unlock some kind of experience badge is dangerous :)
- weare138 3y ago
  I remember those days. Luckily modern Perl has features now to help keep you from shooting yourself in the foot.
WesolyKubeczek 3y ago
> has such a sizeable ecosystem of modules They say junkyards have a sizeable choice of car parts, too.
- collyw 3y ago
  Perl usually had excellent quality modules back when I was using it. Python (these days) has a mix of mostly good, but some bad. Javascipt just seems a shambles when I go there.
  - WesolyKubeczek 3y ago
    The thing is, they stayed the same, same 13 years old bugs, sometimes you can even see the author popping in saying he’ll take a look in February without narrowing it down to at least the quarter century said February is supposed to be in. The usual ghost town with tumbleweed on its streets.
gbacon 3y ago
Perl is a beautiful language. It’s fast. It’s stable. It’s expressive. What I really miss working with other languages is Perl’s documentation. Bigots gonna bigot. Perl is an unorthodox language; Larry would probably prefer eclectic. It’s tough being the different kid. As paulg wrote, “The superficial demands of orthodoxy make it an inexpensive substitute for virtue. And that in turn is one of the reasons orthodoxy is so attractive to bad people. You could be a horrible person, and yet as long as you’re orthodox, you’re better than everyone who isn’t.”
- fuzztester 3y ago
  >As paulg wrote, Wow, interesting quote. I agree with it. We see such behaviour all the time in people. Do you remember where you read it? Was it in one of his essays or tweets? I would like to read the original, with context, if any.
  - com 3y ago
    It looks like a fairly recent post addressing some uncomfortable cultural and political trends: https://www.paulgraham.com/heresy.html https://www.paulgraham.com/heresy.html
    - fuzztester 3y ago
      Thanks, will check that out.
forinti 3y ago
I get that a lot. But he who laughs last... Whenever the Java troupe gets all excited about multi-line strings, or closures, or string interpolation (what nasty syntax!), it's my turn to laugh. All in good spirits, of course.

em-bee 3y ago

that's not just a perl problem. you may face the same issue with php and also any lesser known language, if only for different reasons. either way though, popularity wins

smartmic 3y ago

The best thing about Perl in comparison to Python is that programs written in Perl age very well. You can run decades old scripts without any updates, versioning and/or dependency hell or other headaches. Even better, also across platforms. I stopped using Python because of the anti-experiences with all that.

gbacon 3y ago
Perl’s documentation runs circles around Python’s.
- collyw 3y ago
  Was thinking that sounds strange, but that's because 90% of my Python is done in Django (which has excellent docs). Python's own documentation is horrible to read for some reason. Whenever I need to remind myself of how to use regexes in Python, it's the first place that comes up, followed by finding a tutorial elsewhere.

burntsushi 3y ago

What if people don't like Perl for real reasons and not just because of knee-jerk taboo? I've actually written a few Perl programs and I really did not enjoy the experience at all. Its regex engine has good Unicode support, if you can figure out how to enable it. I'll give it that.

kstrauser 3y ago
I’m with you there. I don’t hate Perl. I don’t think it’s taboo. I just can’t think of a scenario where I’d want to use it over another tool. Perl was the first non-C language I wrote significant amounts of Unix code in. In particular, I wrote lots of web and server admin projects with it. I know Perl well enough to 1) appreciate why people still like using it, and 2) not want to use it myself.

BrandoElFollito 3y ago

I used to write in Perl 20 years ago. It started really nice, with well-structured code. And then when I learned this and that, the code started to be more concise, to the point of being impossible to understand for the author (me) after a week. I liked it though and I realize that this is not Perl's fault but mine. Still, giving too much power to less experienced devs without having them unlock some kind of experience badge is dangerous :)

weare138 3y ago
I remember those days. Luckily modern Perl has features now to help keep you from shooting yourself in the foot.

WesolyKubeczek 3y ago

> has such a sizeable ecosystem of modules They say junkyards have a sizeable choice of car parts, too.

collyw 3y ago
Perl usually had excellent quality modules back when I was using it. Python (these days) has a mix of mostly good, but some bad. Javascipt just seems a shambles when I go there.
- WesolyKubeczek 3y ago
  The thing is, they stayed the same, same 13 years old bugs, sometimes you can even see the author popping in saying he’ll take a look in February without narrowing it down to at least the quarter century said February is supposed to be in. The usual ghost town with tumbleweed on its streets.

gbacon 3y ago

Perl is a beautiful language. It’s fast. It’s stable. It’s expressive. What I really miss working with other languages is Perl’s documentation. Bigots gonna bigot. Perl is an unorthodox language; Larry would probably prefer eclectic. It’s tough being the different kid. As paulg wrote, “The superficial demands of orthodoxy make it an inexpensive substitute for virtue. And that in turn is one of the reasons orthodoxy is so attractive to bad people. You could be a horrible person, and yet as long as you’re orthodox, you’re better than everyone who isn’t.”

fuzztester 3y ago
>As paulg wrote, Wow, interesting quote. I agree with it. We see such behaviour all the time in people. Do you remember where you read it? Was it in one of his essays or tweets? I would like to read the original, with context, if any.
- com 3y ago
  It looks like a fairly recent post addressing some uncomfortable cultural and political trends: https://www.paulgraham.com/heresy.html https://www.paulgraham.com/heresy.html
  - fuzztester 3y ago
    Thanks, will check that out.

forinti 3y ago

I get that a lot. But he who laughs last... Whenever the Java troupe gets all excited about multi-line strings, or closures, or string interpolation (what nasty syntax!), it's my turn to laugh. All in good spirits, of course.