7 ms·

Fridge/freezer one is handy for temperature and door open alarms

iamacyborg 3y ago
Probably easier and more efficient to just get a window/door sensor offered by all the home automation providers. It’ll integrate better into your home automation software of choice, be cheaper and much easier to replace.
freetanga 3y ago
My dumb freezer beeps like hell if left open. That is it’s only trick
bell-cot 3y ago
I'd say a temperature alarm - if I happen to feel I need one - should be a physically separate little thing. With it's own programmable temperature range. Usually it's in the fridge. But during a cold spell, I can adjust and move it to a spot where I'm worried the pipes might freeze. Or turn it into a "is the A/C working?" watchdog during a heat wave. Or, I can buy several to cover all those. But they're all one make & model, so I don't have to install/learn/use 5 different crappy apps for 'em. And that way the the fridge can't die...and quietly take its built-in alarm with it.
- darreninthenet 3y ago
  I said it was handy not something I would go out of my way to get... the fridge has it so it's useful. I don't understand why so many people on here are so offended by a useful feature that from most people's perspective is just a feature the fridge has rather than one they shopped for.
  - arter4 3y ago
    I personally am not offended by a feature. I wouldn't march on the streets to denounce this or anything like that. What I am saying (though I cannot speak for anyone) is that I, on the contrary, would go out of my way to not get, not because I have thin foil hat or whatever, but because the reliability and privacy concerns this kind of thing carries far outweigh (in my scale) the benefit of having something that will come in useful once in a decade. Note that things like that have already happened. When an AWS region went down, things like doorbells and lights stopped working properly (https://financialpost.com/technology/personal-tech/pitfalls-of-a-smart-home-amazon-outage-left-people-without-working-fridges-lights-and-even-access-to-homes https://financialpost.com/technology/personal-tech/pitfalls-...). Which, if you think about it, is ridiculous. I cannot turn my lights on because somewhere, potentially thousands of miles away, some datacenters failed, even if those datacenters could, ostensibly, only give me ads and "improvements" and not any core feature. And when it comes to privacy, Roomba employees posted on Facebook picture of a woman on the toilet, a picture that was taken by the Roomba itself while cleaning (https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/12/19/1065306/roomba-irobot-robot-vacuums-artificial-intelligence-training-data-privacy/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/12/19/1065306/roomba-i...). Now, you might say that the Roomba algorithm has to train a lot to be able to work properly, but why take pictures? And why upload them to the Internet? Of course everyone makes their own judgement calls. I'm not offended if anyone gets smart fridges or voice activated lights.
    - BoxFour 3y ago
      > I cannot turn my lights on because somewhere, potentially thousands of miles away, some datacenters failed, even if those datacenters could, ostensibly, only give me ads and "improvements" and not any core feature. It appears there's a misunderstanding here. When smart lightbulbs lose internet connection, they still function as regular lightbulbs. In such cases, you simply revert to the traditional method of turning the light switch on and off manually, instead of using voice commands or an app.
      - hansvm 3y ago
        > It appears there's a misunderstanding here. When smart lightbulbs lose internet connection, they still function as regular lightbulbs. That's a better way to install things, but it's not the only way that installation is done, and it's still excessive to need the internet for what could easily be a purely local operation. For device classes where "on/off" has historically been attached to the device itself (washer, stove, ...), it's more common than in the lightbulb case for the internet connection to be mandatory. Pushing closer to tin-foil hat territory, when your lights can be controlled over the internet by servers you don't own, that operator can do nearly whatever they'd like. A common pattern in other industries (ocean navigation apps, OB2 monitors, ...) is to require a server for no good reason, sell a device at full market value, and then later extort the customer into some sort of subscription/data-leak to continue using their own devices. It's common for the remote server to just shut down (startup goes out of business, manufacturer decides it'd be nice if you bought a new device, ...). Less likely but worse if it happened, the server operator _could_ trigger epilectic seizures or whatever.
        BoxFour 3y ago
        > That's a better way to install things, but it's not the only way that installation is done It’s by far the most common. Most people just buy Hue lightbulbs and an hub to use with their existing home setup, which involves physical light switches still being present. > Pushing closer to tin-foil hat territory… For lights specifically: If this is a threat model that worries you, it’s quite easy to setup something like home assistant.io with zigbee lights. Your repudiation appears to be about centralized services, not about “smart” devices as a general concept.
  - bell-cot 3y ago
    True, and if you're stuck with a fridge that's hooked to the internet regardless... OTOH, this item's context is "KISS, because the complex products are hot & steamy piles of failure modes, all eager to show themselves off". From that PoV, the alarm features kinda sound like yet more things to break down.
  - inferiorhuman 3y ago
    I'm not offended by you enjoying a feature, but I see that feature as a net negative. An R&D budget is more or less a zero sum situation. Money spent developing temperature sensors is money not spent on something else. Fridge quality today is lousy enough (and warranties + return policies have all but evaporated) that spending money elsewhere would've been a big win. Even if we're not talking reliability, I had to replace a 20 year old fridge with split shelves only to find that this feature is now only available on more expensive, less efficient, less reliable bottom freezer units. Another modern fridge I've dealt with recently (Whirlpool) was just breathtakingly poorly built. It worked, but imagine if Whirlopool had sunk money into QA instead of gizmos. Presumably your built-in temp sensors are WiFi or bluetooth. What are the chances that's gonna get updated when the next WiFi standard starts to become more common? Will it support the next version of WPA? What happens when the power goes out? When I had to diagnose a dying LG fridge, I got some cheapie ($20ish) RF temp probes. They're battery powered, the included receiver can set an alarm, and a cheapie software defined radio kit can decode the signals on Linux. I run rechargeable NiCad batteries in them and have moved them from the LG to a couple fridges since. Hands down a way better (and more robust) experience than anything a fridge manufacturer could dream up. Door open alarms are comparatively much simpler and a good example of a feature with a much smaller inherent downside. BTW, I'd also add that folks (not necessarily you) championing flashy features are forgetting just how dead nuts simple fridges used be. To the best of my knowledge my current fridge (Frigidaire / Electrolux) has a mechanical timer for the defrost cycle. The LG uses electronic controls to eek out a bit more efficiency. I know which one I'd rather replace.
    - kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
      It isn't zero sum. They could simply add the gizmos and keep the important bits the same as their refined, reliable 20 year old designs. What they're actually doing is actively spending engineering resources to enshittify what was already perfected to boost profit.
      - inferiorhuman 3y ago
        For better or for worse, no, they could not have kept the working bits the same. The US EPA has progressively tightened restrictions both on what refrigerants can be used and how much electricity can be used. Instead of focusing on making that reliable, they're focusing on making it cheap so they can add gizmos. Besides, if you've got to replace a fridge every five years now that's a win for the appliance manufacturers. Although, really, who offers anything more than a 1 year warranty anymore? That should tell you how long these things are expected to last.
beAbU 3y ago
Why? Just close the door properly. Ajust the feet so the fridge stands on a slight angle, so the door swings shut on it's own. What help is a temperature alarm if you are away. A fridge is used daily, surely you'll notice if the temperature is not what it's supposed to be.
- navbaker 3y ago
  Have you ever been around kids? They have a complete lack of situational awareness that leads to things like not noticing they’ve not pushed the fridge door shut and sealed all the way after grabbing cheese and running back to play. I can’t tell you how many times the chime on our LG has let us know to push the door closed.
  - arter4 3y ago
    I admit I don't have kids, but AFAIK kids can do all kind of stuff, like putting crayons in the dishwasher or accidentally breaking things. You usually don't have sensors for all kinds of scenario (what if my kid breaks a glass? what if she starts drawing on the wall?). You either don't care and fix the thing later on, or you try to prevent that from happening, or a combination of the two. Sensors and notifications are not a reasonable solution to everything.
    - BoxFour 3y ago
      If you made, say, a dishwasher that notified you when something meltable was put into it you would probably find quite a few buyers. Your examples aren’t really great for that reason.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  Are you sure you would notice if the fridge was 45°F instead of 37°F? And sure that you’d notice before anyone consumed unsafe food?
- darreninthenet 3y ago
  I really have no idea how to reply to this without sounding like an ass so apologies in advance. Well yeah duh if the door was shut properly every time fridges wouldn't need door or temperature alarms at all (most have an audible one already). But it's called an alarm for a reason, sometimes shit goes wrong and it's handy to know before all the food has been at room temperature all day. We had a freezer door pop open overnight once, because one of the drawers wasn't quite shut properly... in 40+ years of interacting with a fridge/freezer, yes occasionally mistakes are made I also have friends and family and at least one will be aware and be willing to go to the house if necessary when we are away (only happened once when our intruder alarm went off for no apparent reason) and my neighbours would also pop in if I was at work. Seriously your response showed such a lack of thinking of real world situations and usage I can only assume you work for the Google UI team or something
arter4 3y ago
Yes, but how often do you experience power outages or other things that lead to weird temperature changes? I think in the last 15 years it only happened to me once. And how often does a fridge door open on its own? Most people don't need other people (or things) to remind them that they should tie their shoes before getting out. If you don't need that, I assume you know you should close the fridge door.
- darreninthenet 3y ago
  Probably a tiny handful of times? And would it have been useful? Yes of course it's useful to get a warning when you're not at home or upstairs in bed. I didn't say it was a life changing critical feature, I said "handy". We had a freezer door pop open overnight once... it was because one of the drawers wasn't quite shut properly, all was good for hours after closing it and then suddenly it popped open when we were in bed and we came down to the food at the front of the drawers defrosted. When you use something day in day out for 40+ years you occasionally have an accidental bad interaction. Sometimes you press the wrong button on the TV remote, sometimes one of the drawers in the freezer is further forward by half an inch on one side and you didn't notice, it happens. Most people, especially on HN, don't need to be reminded to think critically about how real world interactions actually might occur before posting poorly thought out responses for the sake of evangelically pushing a point, but here we are
  - arter4 3y ago
    I'm not saying it is not useful, nor am I making a point about "survival" (also because people have survived long before fridges were even a thing). I'm saying it can be useful, but only very rarely.
    - thfuran 3y ago
      Features that are useful but only rarely are great. Designing only for the happy path is terrible.
      - 3y ago
dandy23 3y ago
A simple switch and a buzzer is all there is to it. Has existed for several decades.

Probably easier and more efficient to just get a window/door sensor offered by all the home automation providers. It’ll integrate better into your home automation software of choice, be cheaper and much easier to replace.

freetanga 3y ago

My dumb freezer beeps like hell if left open. That is it’s only trick

bell-cot 3y ago

I'd say a temperature alarm - if I happen to feel I need one - should be a physically separate little thing. With it's own programmable temperature range. Usually it's in the fridge. But during a cold spell, I can adjust and move it to a spot where I'm worried the pipes might freeze. Or turn it into a "is the A/C working?" watchdog during a heat wave. Or, I can buy several to cover all those. But they're all one make & model, so I don't have to install/learn/use 5 different crappy apps for 'em. And that way the the fridge can't die...and quietly take its built-in alarm with it.

darreninthenet 3y ago
I said it was handy not something I would go out of my way to get... the fridge has it so it's useful. I don't understand why so many people on here are so offended by a useful feature that from most people's perspective is just a feature the fridge has rather than one they shopped for.
- arter4 3y ago
  I personally am not offended by a feature. I wouldn't march on the streets to denounce this or anything like that. What I am saying (though I cannot speak for anyone) is that I, on the contrary, would go out of my way to not get, not because I have thin foil hat or whatever, but because the reliability and privacy concerns this kind of thing carries far outweigh (in my scale) the benefit of having something that will come in useful once in a decade. Note that things like that have already happened. When an AWS region went down, things like doorbells and lights stopped working properly (https://financialpost.com/technology/personal-tech/pitfalls-of-a-smart-home-amazon-outage-left-people-without-working-fridges-lights-and-even-access-to-homes https://financialpost.com/technology/personal-tech/pitfalls-...). Which, if you think about it, is ridiculous. I cannot turn my lights on because somewhere, potentially thousands of miles away, some datacenters failed, even if those datacenters could, ostensibly, only give me ads and "improvements" and not any core feature. And when it comes to privacy, Roomba employees posted on Facebook picture of a woman on the toilet, a picture that was taken by the Roomba itself while cleaning (https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/12/19/1065306/roomba-irobot-robot-vacuums-artificial-intelligence-training-data-privacy/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/12/19/1065306/roomba-i...). Now, you might say that the Roomba algorithm has to train a lot to be able to work properly, but why take pictures? And why upload them to the Internet? Of course everyone makes their own judgement calls. I'm not offended if anyone gets smart fridges or voice activated lights.
  - BoxFour 3y ago
    > I cannot turn my lights on because somewhere, potentially thousands of miles away, some datacenters failed, even if those datacenters could, ostensibly, only give me ads and "improvements" and not any core feature. It appears there's a misunderstanding here. When smart lightbulbs lose internet connection, they still function as regular lightbulbs. In such cases, you simply revert to the traditional method of turning the light switch on and off manually, instead of using voice commands or an app.
    - hansvm 3y ago
      > It appears there's a misunderstanding here. When smart lightbulbs lose internet connection, they still function as regular lightbulbs. That's a better way to install things, but it's not the only way that installation is done, and it's still excessive to need the internet for what could easily be a purely local operation. For device classes where "on/off" has historically been attached to the device itself (washer, stove, ...), it's more common than in the lightbulb case for the internet connection to be mandatory. Pushing closer to tin-foil hat territory, when your lights can be controlled over the internet by servers you don't own, that operator can do nearly whatever they'd like. A common pattern in other industries (ocean navigation apps, OB2 monitors, ...) is to require a server for no good reason, sell a device at full market value, and then later extort the customer into some sort of subscription/data-leak to continue using their own devices. It's common for the remote server to just shut down (startup goes out of business, manufacturer decides it'd be nice if you bought a new device, ...). Less likely but worse if it happened, the server operator _could_ trigger epilectic seizures or whatever.
      - BoxFour 3y ago
        > That's a better way to install things, but it's not the only way that installation is done It’s by far the most common. Most people just buy Hue lightbulbs and an hub to use with their existing home setup, which involves physical light switches still being present. > Pushing closer to tin-foil hat territory… For lights specifically: If this is a threat model that worries you, it’s quite easy to setup something like home assistant.io with zigbee lights. Your repudiation appears to be about centralized services, not about “smart” devices as a general concept.
- bell-cot 3y ago
  True, and if you're stuck with a fridge that's hooked to the internet regardless... OTOH, this item's context is "KISS, because the complex products are hot & steamy piles of failure modes, all eager to show themselves off". From that PoV, the alarm features kinda sound like yet more things to break down.
- inferiorhuman 3y ago
  I'm not offended by you enjoying a feature, but I see that feature as a net negative. An R&D budget is more or less a zero sum situation. Money spent developing temperature sensors is money not spent on something else. Fridge quality today is lousy enough (and warranties + return policies have all but evaporated) that spending money elsewhere would've been a big win. Even if we're not talking reliability, I had to replace a 20 year old fridge with split shelves only to find that this feature is now only available on more expensive, less efficient, less reliable bottom freezer units. Another modern fridge I've dealt with recently (Whirlpool) was just breathtakingly poorly built. It worked, but imagine if Whirlopool had sunk money into QA instead of gizmos. Presumably your built-in temp sensors are WiFi or bluetooth. What are the chances that's gonna get updated when the next WiFi standard starts to become more common? Will it support the next version of WPA? What happens when the power goes out? When I had to diagnose a dying LG fridge, I got some cheapie ($20ish) RF temp probes. They're battery powered, the included receiver can set an alarm, and a cheapie software defined radio kit can decode the signals on Linux. I run rechargeable NiCad batteries in them and have moved them from the LG to a couple fridges since. Hands down a way better (and more robust) experience than anything a fridge manufacturer could dream up. Door open alarms are comparatively much simpler and a good example of a feature with a much smaller inherent downside. BTW, I'd also add that folks (not necessarily you) championing flashy features are forgetting just how dead nuts simple fridges used be. To the best of my knowledge my current fridge (Frigidaire / Electrolux) has a mechanical timer for the defrost cycle. The LG uses electronic controls to eek out a bit more efficiency. I know which one I'd rather replace.
  - kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
    It isn't zero sum. They could simply add the gizmos and keep the important bits the same as their refined, reliable 20 year old designs. What they're actually doing is actively spending engineering resources to enshittify what was already perfected to boost profit.
    - inferiorhuman 3y ago
      For better or for worse, no, they could not have kept the working bits the same. The US EPA has progressively tightened restrictions both on what refrigerants can be used and how much electricity can be used. Instead of focusing on making that reliable, they're focusing on making it cheap so they can add gizmos. Besides, if you've got to replace a fridge every five years now that's a win for the appliance manufacturers. Although, really, who offers anything more than a 1 year warranty anymore? That should tell you how long these things are expected to last.

beAbU 3y ago

Why? Just close the door properly. Ajust the feet so the fridge stands on a slight angle, so the door swings shut on it's own. What help is a temperature alarm if you are away. A fridge is used daily, surely you'll notice if the temperature is not what it's supposed to be.

navbaker 3y ago
Have you ever been around kids? They have a complete lack of situational awareness that leads to things like not noticing they’ve not pushed the fridge door shut and sealed all the way after grabbing cheese and running back to play. I can’t tell you how many times the chime on our LG has let us know to push the door closed.
- arter4 3y ago
  I admit I don't have kids, but AFAIK kids can do all kind of stuff, like putting crayons in the dishwasher or accidentally breaking things. You usually don't have sensors for all kinds of scenario (what if my kid breaks a glass? what if she starts drawing on the wall?). You either don't care and fix the thing later on, or you try to prevent that from happening, or a combination of the two. Sensors and notifications are not a reasonable solution to everything.
  - BoxFour 3y ago
    If you made, say, a dishwasher that notified you when something meltable was put into it you would probably find quite a few buyers. Your examples aren’t really great for that reason.
sokoloff 3y ago
Are you sure you would notice if the fridge was 45°F instead of 37°F? And sure that you’d notice before anyone consumed unsafe food?
darreninthenet 3y ago
I really have no idea how to reply to this without sounding like an ass so apologies in advance. Well yeah duh if the door was shut properly every time fridges wouldn't need door or temperature alarms at all (most have an audible one already). But it's called an alarm for a reason, sometimes shit goes wrong and it's handy to know before all the food has been at room temperature all day. We had a freezer door pop open overnight once, because one of the drawers wasn't quite shut properly... in 40+ years of interacting with a fridge/freezer, yes occasionally mistakes are made I also have friends and family and at least one will be aware and be willing to go to the house if necessary when we are away (only happened once when our intruder alarm went off for no apparent reason) and my neighbours would also pop in if I was at work. Seriously your response showed such a lack of thinking of real world situations and usage I can only assume you work for the Google UI team or something

arter4 3y ago

Yes, but how often do you experience power outages or other things that lead to weird temperature changes? I think in the last 15 years it only happened to me once. And how often does a fridge door open on its own? Most people don't need other people (or things) to remind them that they should tie their shoes before getting out. If you don't need that, I assume you know you should close the fridge door.

darreninthenet 3y ago
Probably a tiny handful of times? And would it have been useful? Yes of course it's useful to get a warning when you're not at home or upstairs in bed. I didn't say it was a life changing critical feature, I said "handy". We had a freezer door pop open overnight once... it was because one of the drawers wasn't quite shut properly, all was good for hours after closing it and then suddenly it popped open when we were in bed and we came down to the food at the front of the drawers defrosted. When you use something day in day out for 40+ years you occasionally have an accidental bad interaction. Sometimes you press the wrong button on the TV remote, sometimes one of the drawers in the freezer is further forward by half an inch on one side and you didn't notice, it happens. Most people, especially on HN, don't need to be reminded to think critically about how real world interactions actually might occur before posting poorly thought out responses for the sake of evangelically pushing a point, but here we are
- arter4 3y ago
  I'm not saying it is not useful, nor am I making a point about "survival" (also because people have survived long before fridges were even a thing). I'm saying it can be useful, but only very rarely.
  - thfuran 3y ago
    Features that are useful but only rarely are great. Designing only for the happy path is terrible.
    - 3y ago

dandy23 3y ago

A simple switch and a buzzer is all there is to it. Has existed for several decades.