4 ms·

I wouldn't compare European salaries with US so quickly. I have a cautionary tale to tell: when in 1990 the USSR collapsed, many Russian physicists decided to m

by carlob 15y ago

I wouldn't compare European salaries with US so quickly. I have a cautionary tale to tell: when in 1990 the USSR collapsed, many Russian physicists decided to move abroad, some to western Europe, some to the USA. At first the European ones were complaining about their lower salaries, but once they started having kids and needing more medical care, they realized that they were actually much better off than their American counterparts. The lesson here is: you might even make much less, but in Europe there are much much better public schools which are free, hospitals are (mostly) free and in general Universities are either free or at least one order of magnitude less expensive than in the US. Should I go on? Most contracts in the US do not have unlimited sick leave, whereas in Europe we get that and 20 days of holiday; the US are one of the four countries in the world with no national law on maternity leave (who are the other three is left as an exercise to the reader…). But I agree with the general point that salaries of developers should not be so low compared to managerial positions.

jacoblyles 15y ago
The US has a national law on maternity leave, the family and medical leave act. Of course, we expect US laws to be less generous because it is the government of a federation of states, like something between a European national government and the EU.
- carlob 15y ago
  A national law that imposes at least 0 weeks of maternity leave. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_leave#Americas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_leave#Americas
  - khuey 15y ago
    No paid leave.
    - DominikR 15y ago
      Do less fortunate women with a new born child receive some kind of support from the state in the US, in case the father or family doesn't support them?
      - khuey 15y ago
        There are various programs to help with different things. Examples are Medicaid [1] for health care, Nutritional Assistance for food [2], and pre-Kindergarten education [3]. How effective these are I'm not sure, I don't have any first-hand experience with them. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid [2] http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/ http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/ [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_Start_Program http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_Start_Program
gopi 15y ago
I see this argument (Europe is superior) made again and again. Let me try to clear the misconceptions. Please note i am a immigrant in US and somewhat qualified to compare it with the other countries. 1, Public education is free in US. Of-course the quality varies depending on which school district you live. But in most metros (other than NYC/Bay area/north east) you will be able to buy a 4 bedroom house in a good school district for around $250k. 2, Healthcare - Health Insurance is paid by the company in almost 99% of the cases. Depending on the insurance plan sometime you will have some out of pocket costs (lke $20 copay per doctor visit etc). 3, Vacation - Most companies offer around 2 weeks of paid vacation a year (in addition to sick leaves). Yes its less than in europe but you can always take non paid vacation. So the bottomline is US offers 2x the salary with 1/2 the cost of living and 3/4 the social benefits as Europe. If you do the math its better to work in IT in US compared to any part of the world.
- carlob 15y ago
  1. [Public education]. If one supposes a good public school in the US is comparable to schools in France or Scandinavia, which I doubt, the issue of secondary education being at least 10 times more expensive remains. 2. [Healthcare]. Not all insurance plans are equal and most of them do not cover limitlessly. In the unlucky event of something like cancer, Americans are left bankrupt, Europeans are not. 3. [Vacation]. Most of the times those two weeks actually include sick leave. Moreover taking one month of unpaid vacation can be a career suicide, so people don't actually do it.
  - gopi 15y ago
    Public education: I was talking about schools in good school districts. They are comparable to most European schools. Healthcare: If you have a good health insurance, you are covered better than any other govt sponsored health system in the world. Again i agree you are screwed if you don't have a insurance but that's a whole different argument Vacation: I am a Indian living in US and many of my friends take a month off (2 weeks paid + 2 weeks unpaid) when they go to india. Its not a big problem From what i see most of the people arguing that europe is better are Europeans who never worked (for a meaningful time) in US or american leftists who adore everything european :)

by carlob 15y ago

jacoblyles 15y ago

The US has a national law on maternity leave, the family and medical leave act. Of course, we expect US laws to be less generous because it is the government of a federation of states, like something between a European national government and the EU.

carlob 15y ago
A national law that imposes at least 0 weeks of maternity leave. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_leave#Americas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_leave#Americas
- khuey 15y ago
  No paid leave.
  - DominikR 15y ago
    Do less fortunate women with a new born child receive some kind of support from the state in the US, in case the father or family doesn't support them?
    - khuey 15y ago
      There are various programs to help with different things. Examples are Medicaid [1] for health care, Nutritional Assistance for food [2], and pre-Kindergarten education [3]. How effective these are I'm not sure, I don't have any first-hand experience with them. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid [2] http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/ http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/ [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_Start_Program http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_Start_Program

gopi 15y ago

I see this argument (Europe is superior) made again and again. Let me try to clear the misconceptions. Please note i am a immigrant in US and somewhat qualified to compare it with the other countries. 1, Public education is free in US. Of-course the quality varies depending on which school district you live. But in most metros (other than NYC/Bay area/north east) you will be able to buy a 4 bedroom house in a good school district for around $250k. 2, Healthcare - Health Insurance is paid by the company in almost 99% of the cases. Depending on the insurance plan sometime you will have some out of pocket costs (lke $20 copay per doctor visit etc). 3, Vacation - Most companies offer around 2 weeks of paid vacation a year (in addition to sick leaves). Yes its less than in europe but you can always take non paid vacation. So the bottomline is US offers 2x the salary with 1/2 the cost of living and 3/4 the social benefits as Europe. If you do the math its better to work in IT in US compared to any part of the world.

carlob 15y ago
1. [Public education]. If one supposes a good public school in the US is comparable to schools in France or Scandinavia, which I doubt, the issue of secondary education being at least 10 times more expensive remains. 2. [Healthcare]. Not all insurance plans are equal and most of them do not cover limitlessly. In the unlucky event of something like cancer, Americans are left bankrupt, Europeans are not. 3. [Vacation]. Most of the times those two weeks actually include sick leave. Moreover taking one month of unpaid vacation can be a career suicide, so people don't actually do it.
- gopi 15y ago
  Public education: I was talking about schools in good school districts. They are comparable to most European schools. Healthcare: If you have a good health insurance, you are covered better than any other govt sponsored health system in the world. Again i agree you are screwed if you don't have a insurance but that's a whole different argument Vacation: I am a Indian living in US and many of my friends take a month off (2 weeks paid + 2 weeks unpaid) when they go to india. Its not a big problem From what i see most of the people arguing that europe is better are Europeans who never worked (for a meaningful time) in US or american leftists who adore everything european :)