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A 20TB drive can be had for $280 now. I do think in these discussions Blu-ray resilience tends to be overstated: https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/s/LhUnX4

by epcoa 3y ago

A 20TB drive can be had for $280 now. I do think in these discussions Blu-ray resilience tends to be overstated: https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/s/LhUnX4i3L6 https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/s/LhUnX4i3L6 https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/res-2017-0016/html?lang=en https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/res-2017-0016... > The data is physically, permanently etched into the media This is hyperbole. Conventional Blu-Rays recordables and even M-Discs do not work this way, they work via phase change in an inorganic compound (or cheaper versions use organic dyes). Etched into the media makes it sound like a pressed product, which it is not, but that is another thing that needs to be considered: the substrate is not impervious to breakdown. These are also subject to QC problems. https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/s/Na6F6lUFiL https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/s/Na6F6lUFiL There are very few suppliers of actually worthwhile Blu-ray media, and it is difficult to sort out what is real vs marketing mumbo jumbo. Verbatim (CMC) changed their M-Discs in 2019 with a “it’s just as good, trust us”. In any case if you need reliable optical backups you should be testing the burn quality. Many don’t do this, but then how do you know the disc has sufficient signal margin? This is specialist knowledge, which is why let’s be honest, most home users are going to best be served outsourcing this to a 3rd party. Perhaps make some Blu-ray’s as a supplement, but it is too easy to overstate the reliability of any one backup method, or losing sight of the big picture for one simple solution. Joe average home user should be considering a 3rd party service and even nerds can use tarsnap or something. Backup and preservation are systems, not a method. People underestimate the difficulty, effort and expertise, “home” users suck at it (as they should), most people need to outsource it. It doesn’t matter that the Blu-ray has 1000 years theoretical longevity if you burned garbage, and just getting people to the 10 year mark is tough. The only reason shorter time horizons are reliable is because of the massive uptake of cloud storage. Blu-ray’s have their place I agree but it’s limited as a primary backup.

vel0city 3y ago
> In any case if you need reliable optical backups you should be testing the burn quality. Many don’t do this, but then how do you know the disc has sufficient signal margin? I've got some original and new Verbatim M-DISCs that I burned full with a few hashes. Every now and then I leave them in the patio for a few weeks but they often get used as coasters in my office. When it gets time to test I rinse them in the sink with soap and water and dry them with the kitchen towel. I test them every few quarters. So far they've lasted a decade and haven't lost a bit. One of them has some slow spots but so far they're all perfectly fine. Good luck storing a hard drive through thunderstorms and in 100F days in the sun for a decade and reading the data off them. I'm not too worried about their durability. And since it's $10 or less for a replica I can make a few and still not spend a ton. And sure, that 20TB drive is $280. For redundancy I'll need to buy at least two. But I've only got maybe a terabyte or two I actually care about, so per terabyte it's a terrible price especially after buying 2-3. And then when syncing new stuff I'd need to move the drives around as I'm talking offline archives. Kind of a pain to go copy all the data at a relative's place hundreds of miles away, I'd need them to plug it in. Otherwise they can just stash the discs in a box for me when I mail them every quarter or so.

by epcoa 3y ago

vel0city 3y ago

> In any case if you need reliable optical backups you should be testing the burn quality. Many don’t do this, but then how do you know the disc has sufficient signal margin? I've got some original and new Verbatim M-DISCs that I burned full with a few hashes. Every now and then I leave them in the patio for a few weeks but they often get used as coasters in my office. When it gets time to test I rinse them in the sink with soap and water and dry them with the kitchen towel. I test them every few quarters. So far they've lasted a decade and haven't lost a bit. One of them has some slow spots but so far they're all perfectly fine. Good luck storing a hard drive through thunderstorms and in 100F days in the sun for a decade and reading the data off them. I'm not too worried about their durability. And since it's $10 or less for a replica I can make a few and still not spend a ton. And sure, that 20TB drive is $280. For redundancy I'll need to buy at least two. But I've only got maybe a terabyte or two I actually care about, so per terabyte it's a terrible price especially after buying 2-3. And then when syncing new stuff I'd need to move the drives around as I'm talking offline archives. Kind of a pain to go copy all the data at a relative's place hundreds of miles away, I'd need them to plug it in. Otherwise they can just stash the discs in a box for me when I mail them every quarter or so.