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There is no 'extra demand' as electricy is energy. The overall 'energy' needed will be less because EVs do not waste 70% of energy to heat and a heat pump crea

There is no 'extra demand' as electricy is energy. The overall 'energy' needed will be less because EVs do not waste 70% of energy to heat and a heat pump creates out of 1 energy unit 2-5 energy units. It is also much easier to efficiently do gas to power/oil to power in big plants and use the excess process energy for other things. Even if our whole society will consume more energy in the next x years, thanks to EVs and electrifying heating (with heatpump) this line/graph/curve will be less than if we would not have EV and e heating through heatpumps.

ericpauley 3y ago
GP said electricity consumption, not energy. While it's true that EVs use less energy (in a raw material/CO2 sense), they clearly use more grid-supplied electricity, and grid capacity needs to be built to meet that demand.
- hughesjj 3y ago
  This is my prior belief as well, but devils advocate: how much electricity does the oil refinement process cost? I'd wager something like 8% or less relative to the total calorie content of said gasoline, but I have no idea
  - rgmerk 3y ago
    I haven’t bothered to dig through the details of this report, but the total energy use in petroleum refining is about 4% of US total energy consumption. https://www.osti.gov/biblio/7261027 https://www.osti.gov/biblio/7261027 Even making conservative assumptions about how much of that is electricity, net demand for electricity is going to go up. This is also what the people who model this stuff for a living are predicting - somewhere around doubling to tripling of electricity demand by 2050 IIRC.
    - mlyle 3y ago
      Very little of the energy used in petroleum refining is electricity. About half of it comes from the refinery's own byproducts; and a big remainder is from natural gas or coal used to produce heat. Indeed, I just peeked at your report and it says the same thing: "Nearly one-half the energy consumed by refineries is obtained from by-product refinery gas and coke, and about one-third is supplied by natural gas. "
- redserk 3y ago
  If your ISO/RTO isn't coordinating activities to add power generation, you owe it to yourself to move -- and pronto. Every competent ISO/RTO in the US has already factored additional electricity growth required by EVs and other needs in their mid/long-term plans.
- Skinetio 3y ago
  Yes and the conclusion is not that we will consume more energy, but we will need to adjust our energy lines. Its missleading how he wrote it.

ericpauley 3y ago

GP said electricity consumption, not energy. While it's true that EVs use less energy (in a raw material/CO2 sense), they clearly use more grid-supplied electricity, and grid capacity needs to be built to meet that demand.

hughesjj 3y ago
This is my prior belief as well, but devils advocate: how much electricity does the oil refinement process cost? I'd wager something like 8% or less relative to the total calorie content of said gasoline, but I have no idea
- rgmerk 3y ago
  I haven’t bothered to dig through the details of this report, but the total energy use in petroleum refining is about 4% of US total energy consumption. https://www.osti.gov/biblio/7261027 https://www.osti.gov/biblio/7261027 Even making conservative assumptions about how much of that is electricity, net demand for electricity is going to go up. This is also what the people who model this stuff for a living are predicting - somewhere around doubling to tripling of electricity demand by 2050 IIRC.
  - mlyle 3y ago
    Very little of the energy used in petroleum refining is electricity. About half of it comes from the refinery's own byproducts; and a big remainder is from natural gas or coal used to produce heat. Indeed, I just peeked at your report and it says the same thing: "Nearly one-half the energy consumed by refineries is obtained from by-product refinery gas and coke, and about one-third is supplied by natural gas. "
redserk 3y ago
If your ISO/RTO isn't coordinating activities to add power generation, you owe it to yourself to move -- and pronto. Every competent ISO/RTO in the US has already factored additional electricity growth required by EVs and other needs in their mid/long-term plans.
Skinetio 3y ago
Yes and the conclusion is not that we will consume more energy, but we will need to adjust our energy lines. Its missleading how he wrote it.