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Fair enough. Still, I would disagree. Communism was tried and failed, its environmental effects (while bad) were therefore limited. Capitalism has endured great

Fair enough. Still, I would disagree. Communism was tried and failed, its environmental effects (while bad) were therefore limited. Capitalism has endured great challenges for much longer, and despite increasing discontent with the system in many areas of the world, doesn’t appear likely to go anywhere. If that’s the case, the prodigious output of environmental harm capitalism generates won’t go anywhere either. Green energy and green technology won’t stop all instances of microplastics polluting our rivers or junk toys collecting in landfills.

WalterBright 3y ago
> Communism was tried and failed, its environmental effects (while bad) were therefore limited I recall reading after the USSR collapsed that Poland was the most polluted country in the world. All due to the rush to industrialize and to heck with the environment. Chernobyl is another case about communism giving short shrift to environmental considerations.
- jonathankoren 3y ago
  Of course one could argue that that this wasn’t the fault of socialism, but rather a government that prioritized the desires of industry above all else. Lest we forget when that paragon of free market capitalism, the United States, prior to the creation of the EPA and its glorious burning Cuyahoga River. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/cuyahoga-river-caught-fire-least-dozen-times-no-one-cared-until-1969-180972444/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/cuyahoga-river-caught...
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    > a government that prioritized the desires of industry above all else. Communist governments simply have to, as starving people tend to revolt. Free market economies generated enough surplus that they can afford to be clean. Communist economies cannot even feed themselves.
    - jonathankoren 3y ago
      So you agree. A robust government regulatory agencies with effective enforcement is required to ensure the protection of the environment and workers' safety and dignity. I'm glad we see that the inevitable outcome of free market deregulation is destruction.
      - WalterBright 3y ago
        Do you think communist industry has a better track record of safety? BTW, dignity comes from within. It is not imposed by external influences. The power the workers have in a free market is the power to say "no" and walk away.
        jonathankoren 3y ago
        Is there a communist government with a robust worker and environmental safety regime? None I’m aware of. Guess what? The free market didn’t provide one either. It doesn’t actually provide a lot of things needed for a robust society. It’s almost as if Wall Streets communism vs capitalism is a giant canard to distract from very basic, proven, and effective socioeconomic reforms.
throwawaymaths 3y ago
> Communism was tried and failed, its environmental effects (while bad) were therefore limited. Look at the sky in any given photograph of china.
- WalterBright 3y ago
  China turned away from communism a couple decades ago.
  - throwawaymaths 3y ago
    It's turning back.

WalterBright 3y ago

> Communism was tried and failed, its environmental effects (while bad) were therefore limited I recall reading after the USSR collapsed that Poland was the most polluted country in the world. All due to the rush to industrialize and to heck with the environment. Chernobyl is another case about communism giving short shrift to environmental considerations.

jonathankoren 3y ago
Of course one could argue that that this wasn’t the fault of socialism, but rather a government that prioritized the desires of industry above all else. Lest we forget when that paragon of free market capitalism, the United States, prior to the creation of the EPA and its glorious burning Cuyahoga River. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/cuyahoga-river-caught-fire-least-dozen-times-no-one-cared-until-1969-180972444/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/cuyahoga-river-caught...
- WalterBright 3y ago
  > a government that prioritized the desires of industry above all else. Communist governments simply have to, as starving people tend to revolt. Free market economies generated enough surplus that they can afford to be clean. Communist economies cannot even feed themselves.
  - jonathankoren 3y ago
    So you agree. A robust government regulatory agencies with effective enforcement is required to ensure the protection of the environment and workers' safety and dignity. I'm glad we see that the inevitable outcome of free market deregulation is destruction.
    - WalterBright 3y ago
      Do you think communist industry has a better track record of safety? BTW, dignity comes from within. It is not imposed by external influences. The power the workers have in a free market is the power to say "no" and walk away.
      - jonathankoren 3y ago
        Is there a communist government with a robust worker and environmental safety regime? None I’m aware of. Guess what? The free market didn’t provide one either. It doesn’t actually provide a lot of things needed for a robust society. It’s almost as if Wall Streets communism vs capitalism is a giant canard to distract from very basic, proven, and effective socioeconomic reforms.

throwawaymaths 3y ago

> Communism was tried and failed, its environmental effects (while bad) were therefore limited. Look at the sky in any given photograph of china.

WalterBright 3y ago
China turned away from communism a couple decades ago.
- throwawaymaths 3y ago
  It's turning back.