5 ms·

Leaving Microsoft aside, maybe that data should be encrypted/ unaccessible to begin with. That would be another paradigm (e.g. android has app isolation afaik)

by adr1an 3y ago

calamari4065 3y ago
You really can't hide information from the operating system while expecting to also use that information in the same OS you're trying to hide it from. The problem isn't that the data is available. It simply has to be available if you are to use it. The problem is that your OS is now a virus all on its own. The OS is not a threat vector you can easily mitigate without just using a different OS.
- Krssst 3y ago
  I wonder if it would be possible to store the data in such a way that another program importing it without user consent would be trivially illegal.
- Barrin92 3y ago
  >You really can't hide information from the operating system why should tab information from Chrome be exposed to the OS to begin with? Of course an executable can prevent leaking unencrypted data. But we're not even talking about this in a 'hard' sense here. Edge is likely just using some API or export feature or reading some history file. Of course browsers can prevent this.
  - calamari4065 3y ago
    Quite literally everything is exposed to the OS. It can't really be any other way. If it weren't exposed to the OS, then you can't access it either. Any protection mechanism you're imagining is managed by the OS. You trust it to enforce file permissions, to enforce memory isolation, to prevent a rogue program from snooping on data as it's unencrypted. You can't hide these things from the OS because the OS is the only thing that can hide data. The OS has full, unrestricted control of the hardware at a level much deeper than you do. The OS can just read your encrypted data from 'secure' memory. It has to be, otherwise you couldn't read it. The OS can access any file because it has block level access to all drives. And there's not one single thing you can do about it. There's absolutely nothing stopping your OS from spying on you in this way. Unless you use an open source OS which can be proven to not do bad things.
    - adr1an 3y ago
      Microsoft Edge is not an OS. Firefox allows encrypting passwords under a "Master" password, that renders files written to disk unavailable for other apps. Yes, the OS can read from memory when you open it. Yes, the OS can have a keylogger, Trojan horse, and everything. That's beside the point. Security hardening could be and should be in place by vendors (Mozilla, Chrome). In some OSes it would work better than others, okay. We can live with that.
- eviks 3y ago
  You can practically because reality isn't binary, it would be much harder and perceived much worse by the public if MS hacked into your password manager and imported all passwords to its cloud just because the OS knows your passwords since OS unlocks your manager
  - calamari4065 3y ago
    After slurping up customer emails into their servers without asking, I give it maybe 12 months until this happens

Leaving Microsoft aside, maybe that data should be encrypted/ unaccessible to begin with. That would be another paradigm (e.g. android has app isolation afaik)

by adr1an 3y ago

Leaving Microsoft aside, maybe that data should be encrypted/ unaccessible to begin with. That would be another paradigm (e.g. android has app isolation afaik)

calamari4065 3y ago

You really can't hide information from the operating system while expecting to also use that information in the same OS you're trying to hide it from. The problem isn't that the data is available. It simply has to be available if you are to use it. The problem is that your OS is now a virus all on its own. The OS is not a threat vector you can easily mitigate without just using a different OS.

Krssst 3y ago
I wonder if it would be possible to store the data in such a way that another program importing it without user consent would be trivially illegal.
Barrin92 3y ago
>You really can't hide information from the operating system why should tab information from Chrome be exposed to the OS to begin with? Of course an executable can prevent leaking unencrypted data. But we're not even talking about this in a 'hard' sense here. Edge is likely just using some API or export feature or reading some history file. Of course browsers can prevent this.
- calamari4065 3y ago
  Quite literally everything is exposed to the OS. It can't really be any other way. If it weren't exposed to the OS, then you can't access it either. Any protection mechanism you're imagining is managed by the OS. You trust it to enforce file permissions, to enforce memory isolation, to prevent a rogue program from snooping on data as it's unencrypted. You can't hide these things from the OS because the OS is the only thing that can hide data. The OS has full, unrestricted control of the hardware at a level much deeper than you do. The OS can just read your encrypted data from 'secure' memory. It has to be, otherwise you couldn't read it. The OS can access any file because it has block level access to all drives. And there's not one single thing you can do about it. There's absolutely nothing stopping your OS from spying on you in this way. Unless you use an open source OS which can be proven to not do bad things.
  - adr1an 3y ago
    Microsoft Edge is not an OS. Firefox allows encrypting passwords under a "Master" password, that renders files written to disk unavailable for other apps. Yes, the OS can read from memory when you open it. Yes, the OS can have a keylogger, Trojan horse, and everything. That's beside the point. Security hardening could be and should be in place by vendors (Mozilla, Chrome). In some OSes it would work better than others, okay. We can live with that.
eviks 3y ago
You can practically because reality isn't binary, it would be much harder and perceived much worse by the public if MS hacked into your password manager and imported all passwords to its cloud just because the OS knows your passwords since OS unlocks your manager
- calamari4065 3y ago
  After slurping up customer emails into their servers without asking, I give it maybe 12 months until this happens