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I like this article. It expands on the big question for VR. We have this technology, it's here, it's mostly good enough (with the caveats the article lays out)

I like this article. It expands on the big question for VR. We have this technology, it's here, it's mostly good enough (with the caveats the article lays out) for a variety of purposes. But what is the purpose consumers will want to use it for? Apple has been the king of telling consumers what they want for years. If they can't sell VR, I don't think anyone can sell VR. This feels like the make or break moment for VR, where we'll know what people want to use it for/if it's capable of living in the mainstream, or if it's forever going to live as a niche product, as it has been since the VR renaissance started when the Occulus Rift came onto the scene.

XorNot 3y ago
How is anyone concluding VR is "mostly good enough"? FOV is still bad. Weight is still too high. Resolution I'd say is adequate for gaming (but see FOV above). Apple are selling the same problems in a very expensive package that they're desperately trying to pretend isn't a VR platform.
- spcebar 3y ago
  The article gives a variety of industries and use cases where VR has been prevalent/useful for years.
  - andsoitis 3y ago
    How is that applicable to the consumer market, in your eyes?
    - spcebar 3y ago
      The fact that industry and special use cases like NASA are using it means that some consumer version will probably always exist, and if industry is finding uses for it, consumers might also find uses for it. VR could also fail catastrophically as a consumer product and just be something that's exclusively used by industry, but I don't see VR going away for good. I think it's carved out a healthy enough niche for itself at this point that some version of a VR/HMD industry is going to exist for a while.
atrus 3y ago
I think that's why the initial version is the "Pro" and why it's so so expensive. Laptops/Computers have "text/spreadsheets" as their fundamental unit of usage, phones and tablets have images/videos. So right now we have all this awesome hardware, but we still really haven't found our VisiCalc/Instagram for VR just yet.
- astrange 3y ago
  The spreadsheets of VR (well, AR) is spreadsheets. The marketing of Vision Pro is literally that you can have a lot of spreadsheets open in the room around you, without being limited by the size of displays you can carry with you. I think this is a better approach than trying to get people to do spreadsheets in the metaverse.
  - crooked-v 3y ago
    Or to put it another way, the Vision Pro is only a VR device because the AR capabilities they want also allow for VR functionality.
pushfoo 3y ago
TL;DR: People want useful or fun, not "VR" > If they can't sell VR, I don't think anyone can sell VR Imagine having as many monitors as you need. Anywhere. Rearrange them whenever and however, even on airplanes! It all weighs under 1 pound (0.45 kg). How much would you pay? I'd pay at least $600. > where we'll know what people want to use it for/if it's capable of living in the mainstream A cheaper, better multi-monitor replacement would be very useful. It might even be fun in some cases, but it's still mostly a productivity tool. Unfortunately, short-term incentives seem to limit funding to projects with potential for: 1. Platform lock-in (Apple Vision, Oculus) 2. Ecosystem extension (Apple Vision, Valve Index) > or if it's forever going to live as a niche product Is having 2+ monitors an obscure niche? An overwhelming number of offices and other workspaces disagree.
- ekianjo 3y ago
  if VR is about having virtual monitors then thats not a Very enticing proposition
  - sjwhevvvvvsj 3y ago
    With the added benefit of neck strain!
    - pushfoo 3y ago
      We already have neck strain with multi-monitor setups and bad office ergonomics. I know it's not likely in the nearest future, but I'm still hopeful we might be less sore if headsets become both light and common enough.
      - vonjuice 3y ago
        > We already have neck strain with multi-monitor setups and bad office ergonomics. And this would make it even worse.
        EForEndeavour 3y ago
nox101 3y ago
They want it for pr0n! Just like they wanted VCRs for pr0n. Super tangential but this documentary is about pr0n going mainstream https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0418753/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0418753/ In it they point out in the 70s how the movie the documentary is about was a huge public topic of discussion. They show Phil Donahue actually telling people to go see it (or at least I remember that in my memory. If it wasn't him it was some other household name). Eventually the prudes push back and effectively get it banned from lots of places but the VCR comes out and the prudes lose. VR pr0n is pretty amazing. It's not perfect because there's only so many things that make sense first person. But, when someone gets up close and breaths on you your brain tells you you felt something even though you know that's impossible. If you saw it and didn't find it compelling I'd suggest you ask around for some better examples. Then there's apps like Virt-A-Mate that take to the next level by being real 3D (Game tech) instead of recorded video. They're not perfect. They have bugs. They run too slow sometimes. But, unlike video, you can change any character to anything you want. That's only going to get better. Apple might ban it but eventually it will be a reason lots of people want VR/AR Friends at Meta already tell me their metrics say the #1 use of VR is pr0n. (no different than the internet itself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-visited_websites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-visited_websites
- endisneigh 3y ago
  why are you saying pr0n instead of porn? lol
  - booleandilemma 3y ago
    Maybe he's typing on a work computer and he doesn't want to trigger some kind of nsfw censoring system. Or he's a prude.
  - kalkr 3y ago
    Tiktok and other social media sites allegedly derank posts with controversial words (suicide, porn, murder) so people butcher the words to talk about things without triggering the debooster. There isn't really evidence that this helps or hurts post discovery, so people mostly do it out of an abundance of caution, which is what seems to have happened here.

XorNot 3y ago

How is anyone concluding VR is "mostly good enough"? FOV is still bad. Weight is still too high. Resolution I'd say is adequate for gaming (but see FOV above). Apple are selling the same problems in a very expensive package that they're desperately trying to pretend isn't a VR platform.

spcebar 3y ago
The article gives a variety of industries and use cases where VR has been prevalent/useful for years.
- andsoitis 3y ago
  How is that applicable to the consumer market, in your eyes?
  - spcebar 3y ago
    The fact that industry and special use cases like NASA are using it means that some consumer version will probably always exist, and if industry is finding uses for it, consumers might also find uses for it. VR could also fail catastrophically as a consumer product and just be something that's exclusively used by industry, but I don't see VR going away for good. I think it's carved out a healthy enough niche for itself at this point that some version of a VR/HMD industry is going to exist for a while.

atrus 3y ago

I think that's why the initial version is the "Pro" and why it's so so expensive. Laptops/Computers have "text/spreadsheets" as their fundamental unit of usage, phones and tablets have images/videos. So right now we have all this awesome hardware, but we still really haven't found our VisiCalc/Instagram for VR just yet.

astrange 3y ago
The spreadsheets of VR (well, AR) is spreadsheets. The marketing of Vision Pro is literally that you can have a lot of spreadsheets open in the room around you, without being limited by the size of displays you can carry with you. I think this is a better approach than trying to get people to do spreadsheets in the metaverse.
- crooked-v 3y ago
  Or to put it another way, the Vision Pro is only a VR device because the AR capabilities they want also allow for VR functionality.

pushfoo 3y ago

TL;DR: People want useful or fun, not "VR" > If they can't sell VR, I don't think anyone can sell VR Imagine having as many monitors as you need. Anywhere. Rearrange them whenever and however, even on airplanes! It all weighs under 1 pound (0.45 kg). How much would you pay? I'd pay at least $600. > where we'll know what people want to use it for/if it's capable of living in the mainstream A cheaper, better multi-monitor replacement would be very useful. It might even be fun in some cases, but it's still mostly a productivity tool. Unfortunately, short-term incentives seem to limit funding to projects with potential for: 1. Platform lock-in (Apple Vision, Oculus) 2. Ecosystem extension (Apple Vision, Valve Index) > or if it's forever going to live as a niche product Is having 2+ monitors an obscure niche? An overwhelming number of offices and other workspaces disagree.

ekianjo 3y ago
if VR is about having virtual monitors then thats not a Very enticing proposition
- sjwhevvvvvsj 3y ago
  With the added benefit of neck strain!
  - pushfoo 3y ago
    We already have neck strain with multi-monitor setups and bad office ergonomics. I know it's not likely in the nearest future, but I'm still hopeful we might be less sore if headsets become both light and common enough.
    - vonjuice 3y ago
      > We already have neck strain with multi-monitor setups and bad office ergonomics. And this would make it even worse.
      - EForEndeavour 3y ago

nox101 3y ago

They want it for pr0n! Just like they wanted VCRs for pr0n. Super tangential but this documentary is about pr0n going mainstream https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0418753/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0418753/ In it they point out in the 70s how the movie the documentary is about was a huge public topic of discussion. They show Phil Donahue actually telling people to go see it (or at least I remember that in my memory. If it wasn't him it was some other household name). Eventually the prudes push back and effectively get it banned from lots of places but the VCR comes out and the prudes lose. VR pr0n is pretty amazing. It's not perfect because there's only so many things that make sense first person. But, when someone gets up close and breaths on you your brain tells you you felt something even though you know that's impossible. If you saw it and didn't find it compelling I'd suggest you ask around for some better examples. Then there's apps like Virt-A-Mate that take to the next level by being real 3D (Game tech) instead of recorded video. They're not perfect. They have bugs. They run too slow sometimes. But, unlike video, you can change any character to anything you want. That's only going to get better. Apple might ban it but eventually it will be a reason lots of people want VR/AR Friends at Meta already tell me their metrics say the #1 use of VR is pr0n. (no different than the internet itself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-visited_websites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-visited_websites

endisneigh 3y ago
why are you saying pr0n instead of porn? lol
- booleandilemma 3y ago
  Maybe he's typing on a work computer and he doesn't want to trigger some kind of nsfw censoring system. Or he's a prude.
- kalkr 3y ago
  Tiktok and other social media sites allegedly derank posts with controversial words (suicide, porn, murder) so people butcher the words to talk about things without triggering the debooster. There isn't really evidence that this helps or hurts post discovery, so people mostly do it out of an abundance of caution, which is what seems to have happened here.