6 ms·

Whenever people talk about how much wealth is comfortable (or ethical) to have, its usually just a notch above their own (well within their social class status)

Whenever people talk about how much wealth is comfortable (or ethical) to have, its usually just a notch above their own (well within their social class status). To be fair I don't know your wealth at all but its just an observation I've had from talking with others about this. The end result of this would be to make these people some of the wealthiest in the country by dragging the wealth curve to just above their level. It sounds like a moral hazard to me.

Dalewyn 3y ago
These arguments nearly always come back to the fundamental desire (greed) for "Giev moniez pl0x.", as you say the limit is above their own wealth as to not be an inconvenience to themselves while siphoning monies from those around (and presumably above) them. It would make for better discussion if these social justice warriors were at least honest about what they actually want.
- jdiff 3y ago
  Most people in this thread aren't making 6-7 figures. The boogeyman you're railing against isn't here.
  - FredPret 3y ago
    Are you kidding? This HN.
  - MacsHeadroom 3y ago
    Very few people on HN are making less than 6 figures.
    - imetatroll 3y ago
      I make less. It sucks.
  - asadotzler 3y ago
    How many people here aren't making 6 figures? I'd wager a slim minority. And I'll bet that some who show up here are making 7 figures. Did you think you were replying on reddit or twitter or something?
    - maeil 3y ago
      If you look at the job threads on HN you'll see a huge number of Europeans (and otherwise non-US persons), many of whom likely make less than $100k+. This isn't 2015, HN has quite a broad non-SV audience now.
- BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
  Saying social justice warriors on hacker news is just awesome.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    The grandparent comment argues for "businesses [which] are democratic institutions" and a "hard cap" on wealth which will presumably be taken and distributed to people with less wealth, for the goal of "do[ing] substantial good". Ergo, arguing justice (FSVO justice) for society. As such, I am of the position that this is one of those rare situations where the term "social justice warrior" is meaningful and accurate.
    - BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
      I agree it’s accurate, but you said “these social justice warriors,” which made me figure you were doing more than referring to the author. It seems like the goal of invoking the term was to aid in your dismissal of the author’s positions by linking them to a derided stereotype of activists. If I’m wrong then I apologize.
      - antifa 3y ago
        If you think about it, Social Justice is objectively a good thing. Being "Woke" means to be aware the United States is a white supremacist society. These terms are used as if they were Ad Hominems, but they're kind of the opposite. The people complaining about these things are literally self-identifying themselves as the bad guy. We're not making you use these words. We're not making you self-identify as the bad guy. We didn't put the rake there, but they're proudly stomping on it anyways.
        BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
        They’d probably argue social justice isn’t inherently good because it’s collectivist or something but yeah I agree with you.
NegativeK 3y ago
> its usually just a notch above their own (well within their social class status). I'm a tech worker in the public sector. To be blunt: tax me more, please.
- smsm42 3y ago
  I'll make you a deal in which both of us come ahead - pay my taxes for this year. I'll even go for federal only. If you're in, I can accept venmo, cash, btc or anything commonly accepted. Think about it - you get less money, as you wanted, the money go to the taxman, as you wanted, and I get a little bit for helping you. Unless, of course, you, as usual, meant that it's me that is going to be taxed more? While you are already getting paid from my money? Another way would be to ask for pay reduction. Same effect on the public money, much less friction and transactional expenses. I'm sure your boss can find a way to make it happen.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- JackFr 3y ago
  Ok, big talker, step up: Gifts to the United States U.S. Department of the Treasury Reporting and Analysis Branch 2 P.O. Box 1328 Parkersburg, WV 26106-1328
  - kagakuninja 3y ago
    That's not how it works. Get Elon and friends to donate half his wealth and then we can talk. Progressive taxation is a good idea...
    - the_optimist 3y ago
      Specifically, this is how it works. Are Elon’s rocket and car company infringing on your well-being? What about the pensioners holding Tesla shares? Are they stifling your ability to come up with some funds for the public good?
aslgbb 3y ago
There are only two measures of money: No money and not enough money. (Steinbeck)
- daxfohl 3y ago
  I can't find it, but I think pg also said something like "when you're 20 if you're not doing bad you feel good. When you're 50 if you're not doing good you feel bad."
  - paulryanrogers 3y ago
    Which seems like common sense. A 50yo has fewer years to with to save up for any retirement, they face age discrimination, increasing health issues, etc. A 20yo has many years to work and pivot on case of setbacks, less age discrimination, usually fewer health issues.
    - daxfohl 3y ago
      True. Makes me wonder if half of being famous is coming up with creative ways to say the obvious.
itishappy 3y ago
> (well within their social class status) I bet you've discovered the cause of this effect. I suspect we're seeing people who live comfortable lifestyles say "this seems about right" and then hedge a bit.
briHass 3y ago
"Everyone driving slower than me is a slowpoke, everyone driving faster is a maniac" This was on full display back in 2017-2018 when tax code was changed to limit the amount of State and Local taxes (SALT) that could be deducted from your Federal tax liability. The original SALT deduction, before the change, clearly benefited the wealthy, with large mortgages and living in high-tax (read: expensive) areas. Cue articles like this one [1], which shows just how out of touch the wealthy can be: > estimate the tax law’s impact on the value of a theoretical house in the New York City suburb of West Orange, New Jersey, purchased for $800,000 in 2017 by a theoretical family with a $250,000 annual income. Those home value and income numbers are very high by national standards — but middle class by the standards of large parts of suburban Essex County. In 2017, $250K/HHI was in the top 5% of the entire US. Someone living in a house that cost 3X the median house, in one of the richest areas of the country, making more than 95% of everyone else considers themselves 'middle class'. [1] https://www.propublica.org/article/trumps-trillion-dollar-hit-to-homeowners/amp?__twitter_impression=true https://www.propublica.org/article/trumps-trillion-dollar-hi...
- infinitecost 3y ago
  > Cue articles like this one [1], which shows just how out of touch the wealthy can be Cue comments like these that show just how out of touch people can be I guess. These people are not meaningfully wealthy. They have no more power than the next 5% down the ladder. Even among the top 1%, 90% are not meaningfully wealthy in terms of the power they can exert. The idea that some poor bozo with a mortgage on an $800k house is wealthy for any useful definition of the term is nonsense.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  > considers themselves 'middle class' They don't consider themselves middle class, statistically they are middle class based on (income, wealth, purchasing power, etc.). They aren't out of touch - nobody asked them - they just live where there's a higher cost of living. But it pays off, or they would move someplace less expensive, and housing would cost the same nationwide.
  - briHass 3y ago
wolverine876 3y ago
> Whenever people talk about how much wealth is comfortable (or ethical) to have, its usually just a notch above their own (well within their social class status). I haven't observed that, and it's very unlikely the GP is a "notch" below $10-15 million.

Dalewyn 3y ago

These arguments nearly always come back to the fundamental desire (greed) for "Giev moniez pl0x.", as you say the limit is above their own wealth as to not be an inconvenience to themselves while siphoning monies from those around (and presumably above) them. It would make for better discussion if these social justice warriors were at least honest about what they actually want.

jdiff 3y ago
Most people in this thread aren't making 6-7 figures. The boogeyman you're railing against isn't here.
- FredPret 3y ago
  Are you kidding? This HN.
- MacsHeadroom 3y ago
  Very few people on HN are making less than 6 figures.
  - imetatroll 3y ago
    I make less. It sucks.
- asadotzler 3y ago
  How many people here aren't making 6 figures? I'd wager a slim minority. And I'll bet that some who show up here are making 7 figures. Did you think you were replying on reddit or twitter or something?
  - maeil 3y ago
    If you look at the job threads on HN you'll see a huge number of Europeans (and otherwise non-US persons), many of whom likely make less than $100k+. This isn't 2015, HN has quite a broad non-SV audience now.
BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
Saying social justice warriors on hacker news is just awesome.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  The grandparent comment argues for "businesses [which] are democratic institutions" and a "hard cap" on wealth which will presumably be taken and distributed to people with less wealth, for the goal of "do[ing] substantial good". Ergo, arguing justice (FSVO justice) for society. As such, I am of the position that this is one of those rare situations where the term "social justice warrior" is meaningful and accurate.
  - BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
    I agree it’s accurate, but you said “these social justice warriors,” which made me figure you were doing more than referring to the author. It seems like the goal of invoking the term was to aid in your dismissal of the author’s positions by linking them to a derided stereotype of activists. If I’m wrong then I apologize.
    - antifa 3y ago
      If you think about it, Social Justice is objectively a good thing. Being "Woke" means to be aware the United States is a white supremacist society. These terms are used as if they were Ad Hominems, but they're kind of the opposite. The people complaining about these things are literally self-identifying themselves as the bad guy. We're not making you use these words. We're not making you self-identify as the bad guy. We didn't put the rake there, but they're proudly stomping on it anyways.
      - BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
        They’d probably argue social justice isn’t inherently good because it’s collectivist or something but yeah I agree with you.

NegativeK 3y ago

> its usually just a notch above their own (well within their social class status). I'm a tech worker in the public sector. To be blunt: tax me more, please.

smsm42 3y ago
I'll make you a deal in which both of us come ahead - pay my taxes for this year. I'll even go for federal only. If you're in, I can accept venmo, cash, btc or anything commonly accepted. Think about it - you get less money, as you wanted, the money go to the taxman, as you wanted, and I get a little bit for helping you. Unless, of course, you, as usual, meant that it's me that is going to be taxed more? While you are already getting paid from my money? Another way would be to ask for pay reduction. Same effect on the public money, much less friction and transactional expenses. I'm sure your boss can find a way to make it happen.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
JackFr 3y ago
Ok, big talker, step up: Gifts to the United States U.S. Department of the Treasury Reporting and Analysis Branch 2 P.O. Box 1328 Parkersburg, WV 26106-1328
- kagakuninja 3y ago
  That's not how it works. Get Elon and friends to donate half his wealth and then we can talk. Progressive taxation is a good idea...
  - the_optimist 3y ago
    Specifically, this is how it works. Are Elon’s rocket and car company infringing on your well-being? What about the pensioners holding Tesla shares? Are they stifling your ability to come up with some funds for the public good?

aslgbb 3y ago

There are only two measures of money: No money and not enough money. (Steinbeck)

daxfohl 3y ago
I can't find it, but I think pg also said something like "when you're 20 if you're not doing bad you feel good. When you're 50 if you're not doing good you feel bad."
- paulryanrogers 3y ago
  Which seems like common sense. A 50yo has fewer years to with to save up for any retirement, they face age discrimination, increasing health issues, etc. A 20yo has many years to work and pivot on case of setbacks, less age discrimination, usually fewer health issues.
  - daxfohl 3y ago
    True. Makes me wonder if half of being famous is coming up with creative ways to say the obvious.

itishappy 3y ago

> (well within their social class status) I bet you've discovered the cause of this effect. I suspect we're seeing people who live comfortable lifestyles say "this seems about right" and then hedge a bit.

briHass 3y ago

"Everyone driving slower than me is a slowpoke, everyone driving faster is a maniac" This was on full display back in 2017-2018 when tax code was changed to limit the amount of State and Local taxes (SALT) that could be deducted from your Federal tax liability. The original SALT deduction, before the change, clearly benefited the wealthy, with large mortgages and living in high-tax (read: expensive) areas. Cue articles like this one [1], which shows just how out of touch the wealthy can be: > estimate the tax law’s impact on the value of a theoretical house in the New York City suburb of West Orange, New Jersey, purchased for $800,000 in 2017 by a theoretical family with a $250,000 annual income. Those home value and income numbers are very high by national standards — but middle class by the standards of large parts of suburban Essex County. In 2017, $250K/HHI was in the top 5% of the entire US. Someone living in a house that cost 3X the median house, in one of the richest areas of the country, making more than 95% of everyone else considers themselves 'middle class'. [1] https://www.propublica.org/article/trumps-trillion-dollar-hit-to-homeowners/amp?__twitter_impression=true https://www.propublica.org/article/trumps-trillion-dollar-hi...

infinitecost 3y ago
> Cue articles like this one [1], which shows just how out of touch the wealthy can be Cue comments like these that show just how out of touch people can be I guess. These people are not meaningfully wealthy. They have no more power than the next 5% down the ladder. Even among the top 1%, 90% are not meaningfully wealthy in terms of the power they can exert. The idea that some poor bozo with a mortgage on an $800k house is wealthy for any useful definition of the term is nonsense.
wolverine876 3y ago
> considers themselves 'middle class' They don't consider themselves middle class, statistically they are middle class based on (income, wealth, purchasing power, etc.). They aren't out of touch - nobody asked them - they just live where there's a higher cost of living. But it pays off, or they would move someplace less expensive, and housing would cost the same nationwide.
- briHass 3y ago

wolverine876 3y ago

> Whenever people talk about how much wealth is comfortable (or ethical) to have, its usually just a notch above their own (well within their social class status). I haven't observed that, and it's very unlikely the GP is a "notch" below $10-15 million.