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The contrast is likely due to the different religions William and Temujin practiced. Christianity was an awkward fit to the ethos of the Germanic nobility.

Bayart 3y ago
Christianity has been reframed in the context of Roman militarism from its very beginning as an official religion. It's in the myth itself, Constantine converting at the Milvian Bridge. The end result being a system of beliefs that's both socially conscious and allows for violence on behalf of the State. Pre-Christian religion in the Empire was weaker in that sense, as it was mostly concerned with ritualizing arbitrary decisions. It was a good fit for Germanic warriors trying to upgrade to Late Roman land-owners.
- sorokod 3y ago
  Yet, you see William and many other medieval rulers, panicking and repenting on their deathbeds.
  - saiya-jin 3y ago
    Almost as if, morality is something ingrained in every human being in some way, maybe as some higher rules of overall fairness. And fairness is something I can see in our small kids, they didn't have to be taught that. Or maybe medieval catholicism with their rather primitive views and morals would instill proper fear in everybody. Which was then often overcome ie by greed or envy, but never could go completely away.
  - sethrin 3y ago
    No, you see accounts of that happening, and setting aside problems with veracity, you don't necessarily have a good handle on frequency.
nerdponx 3y ago
> The contrast is likely due to the different religions William and Temujin practiced. This was my initial gut reaction as well, but then I remembered the incredible violence and devastation that Christian Europeans brought upon themselves and others over the last 1500 years. How many of those kings, popes, and other leaders expressed similar regret on their deathbeds?
- tut-urut-utut 3y ago
  > This was my initial gut reaction as well, but then I remembered the incredible violence and devastation that Christian Europeans brought upon themselves and others over the last 1500 years. Don’t generalise to all European Christians. It was the west European Catholic and Protestant Christians. Orthodox Christians were and are up to these days much more civilised society.

Bayart 3y ago

Christianity has been reframed in the context of Roman militarism from its very beginning as an official religion. It's in the myth itself, Constantine converting at the Milvian Bridge. The end result being a system of beliefs that's both socially conscious and allows for violence on behalf of the State. Pre-Christian religion in the Empire was weaker in that sense, as it was mostly concerned with ritualizing arbitrary decisions. It was a good fit for Germanic warriors trying to upgrade to Late Roman land-owners.

sorokod 3y ago
Yet, you see William and many other medieval rulers, panicking and repenting on their deathbeds.
- saiya-jin 3y ago
  Almost as if, morality is something ingrained in every human being in some way, maybe as some higher rules of overall fairness. And fairness is something I can see in our small kids, they didn't have to be taught that. Or maybe medieval catholicism with their rather primitive views and morals would instill proper fear in everybody. Which was then often overcome ie by greed or envy, but never could go completely away.
- sethrin 3y ago
  No, you see accounts of that happening, and setting aside problems with veracity, you don't necessarily have a good handle on frequency.

nerdponx 3y ago

> The contrast is likely due to the different religions William and Temujin practiced. This was my initial gut reaction as well, but then I remembered the incredible violence and devastation that Christian Europeans brought upon themselves and others over the last 1500 years. How many of those kings, popes, and other leaders expressed similar regret on their deathbeds?

tut-urut-utut 3y ago
> This was my initial gut reaction as well, but then I remembered the incredible violence and devastation that Christian Europeans brought upon themselves and others over the last 1500 years. Don’t generalise to all European Christians. It was the west European Catholic and Protestant Christians. Orthodox Christians were and are up to these days much more civilised society.