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I'm in Vienna and work for a local startup in the mobile application development scene .. and yeah. Pay-rates are definitely not what they should be, here in A

I'm in Vienna and work for a local startup in the mobile application development scene .. and yeah. Pay-rates are definitely not what they should be, here in Austria. I think it has a lot to do with the "Kollektiv-vertrag" prices being set too low by the government itself ..

mhofer 14y ago
+1, which comes back to the low appreciation for hackers :-)
philipp-spiess 14y ago
/agree The "Kollektiv" is nice, but not for everybody.
accountoftheday 14y ago
one way to think of it: with your average salary you are propping up all the people not as good as you who still get the same salary. if you cannot feel good about this you then move away from your socialist country. I did.
- seclorum 14y ago
  Its definitely a point. Unfortunately I moved to this country, and have gotten too involved in it to be able to move easily (house, wife, kids..) or else I'd definitely move to a country where programmers are paid more what they're worth, not what the socialists want.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- DominikR 14y ago
  Well, I've been thinking about moving from Vienna to somewhere more competetive for some time (though its not about the money, I'm paid really well here - just about competition, which I happen to enjoy a lot), but the reasons for not doing it are some of the features you get when living in a more "socialist" (though I wouldn't call Austria socialist) country. Security, low crime rate, very few homeless people, drug addicts etc.. I can basically go to a party, get drunk there and take a walk after that in any part of the city during night without being afraid that some homeless person will attack me. If you ask me, thats a big pro for staying here. Sure, I would probably earn more if I did the same job in San Francisco, but then I would have to deal with a much worse social situation, and I would have to be more cautious.
  - yummyfajitas 14y ago
    Sure, I would probably earn more if I did the same job in San Francisco, but then I would have to deal with a much worse social situation, and I would have to be more cautious. Does the crime rate actually differ much between SF and Vienna? A quick google search provides very little info, but suggests there is not much difference. I haven't been to SF lately, but crime is a negligible issue in NYC. Though SF may be a special case - I've heard they have extremely generous benefits and the homeless move to SF to collect them. Can someone with more knowledge comment?
    - DominikR 14y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentiona... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_r... San Francisco has more homicides with its population of ~800k than all of Austria combined with a population of 8,5 million.
      - base698 14y ago
        Almost all of them are gang related--YAY drug war! As an upper middle class software engineer it's not really a good argument. Though the poverty and hopelessness can be a little sad if you walk through the bad areas.
        DominikR 14y ago
        I'm not saying life is bad in San Francisco, those statistics are just one part of the equasion. (the other parts: leaving behind family, friends, the good life I already have etc) I am just against the notion that propping up that random incompetent guy (at least to some degree, so he wont roam the streets doing crazy stuff) is always a bad decision. Preventing those people from failing miserably (and the negative side effects that come with it) - thats basically why we have a lower income over here. And my pricetag for giving up all that is higher than just doubling my income.

mhofer 14y ago

+1, which comes back to the low appreciation for hackers :-)

philipp-spiess 14y ago

/agree The "Kollektiv" is nice, but not for everybody.

accountoftheday 14y ago

one way to think of it: with your average salary you are propping up all the people not as good as you who still get the same salary. if you cannot feel good about this you then move away from your socialist country. I did.

seclorum 14y ago
Its definitely a point. Unfortunately I moved to this country, and have gotten too involved in it to be able to move easily (house, wife, kids..) or else I'd definitely move to a country where programmers are paid more what they're worth, not what the socialists want.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
DominikR 14y ago
Well, I've been thinking about moving from Vienna to somewhere more competetive for some time (though its not about the money, I'm paid really well here - just about competition, which I happen to enjoy a lot), but the reasons for not doing it are some of the features you get when living in a more "socialist" (though I wouldn't call Austria socialist) country. Security, low crime rate, very few homeless people, drug addicts etc.. I can basically go to a party, get drunk there and take a walk after that in any part of the city during night without being afraid that some homeless person will attack me. If you ask me, thats a big pro for staying here. Sure, I would probably earn more if I did the same job in San Francisco, but then I would have to deal with a much worse social situation, and I would have to be more cautious.
- yummyfajitas 14y ago
  Sure, I would probably earn more if I did the same job in San Francisco, but then I would have to deal with a much worse social situation, and I would have to be more cautious. Does the crime rate actually differ much between SF and Vienna? A quick google search provides very little info, but suggests there is not much difference. I haven't been to SF lately, but crime is a negligible issue in NYC. Though SF may be a special case - I've heard they have extremely generous benefits and the homeless move to SF to collect them. Can someone with more knowledge comment?
  - DominikR 14y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentiona... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_r... San Francisco has more homicides with its population of ~800k than all of Austria combined with a population of 8,5 million.
    - base698 14y ago
      Almost all of them are gang related--YAY drug war! As an upper middle class software engineer it's not really a good argument. Though the poverty and hopelessness can be a little sad if you walk through the bad areas.
      - DominikR 14y ago
        I'm not saying life is bad in San Francisco, those statistics are just one part of the equasion. (the other parts: leaving behind family, friends, the good life I already have etc) I am just against the notion that propping up that random incompetent guy (at least to some degree, so he wont roam the streets doing crazy stuff) is always a bad decision. Preventing those people from failing miserably (and the negative side effects that come with it) - thats basically why we have a lower income over here. And my pricetag for giving up all that is higher than just doubling my income.