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Yeah the word "recall" means "a public call by a manufacturer for the return of a product that may be defective or contaminated" or more plainly "a call to retu

Yeah the word "recall" means "a public call by a manufacturer for the return of a product that may be defective or contaminated" or more plainly "a call to return". If you don't have to return the item somewhere then it isn't a "recall" by definition. An over-the-air software update is not a "recall". The terminology has to change. A "recall" is a typically an inconvenient event for the owners of a product -- this ain't that.

szundi 3y ago
This is since Elon told something nice about DeSantis
nickthegreek 3y ago
That is not what the word recall means. That is what you want it to mean. The governing body here is the NHTSA, here is their recall page where the term is defined. https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls >A recall is issued when a manufacturer or NHTSA determines that a vehicle, equipment, car seat, or tire creates an unreasonable safety risk or fails to meet minimum safety standards. Most decisions to conduct a recall and remedy a safety defect are made voluntarily by manufacturers prior to any involvement by NHTSA. >Manufacturers are required to fix the problem by repairing it, replacing it, offering a refund, or in rare cases repurchasing the vehicle.
- wvenable 3y ago
  Right because historically all of those things required you returning the vehicle somewhere to have that work done. That's why the NHTSA called it a "recall" in the first place. The idea that the manufacturer can fix a minor safety issue without the owner of the vehicle having to do anything is relatively new. The terminology is too broad now. It wasn't before, but it is now, because technology has changed.
- jeff_tyrrill 3y ago
  > That is not what the word recall means. That is what you want it to mean. No, it is the plain dictionary meaning of "recall"[1] (see sense #7, which states the "return of (a faulty product)". Words in headlines should be the plain dictionary meaning, not a legal term of art for specialists. [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/recall https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/recall
  - nickthegreek 3y ago
    Then put your head in the sand. It’s not changing. The is and will continue to be called a Recall. No amount of chest beating or saber rattling is going to change that. Of all the inane concerns that I see appear on HN, this is the most ricidulous.
bumby 3y ago
Where did you find that definition? The NHTSA definition doesn't have any mention of "returning" a product. They define it as "when a manufacturer or NHTSA determines that a vehicle, piece of equipment, car seat, or tire poses an unreasonable safety risk." It's entirely based on risk and a duty to the consumer. It's possible that you're leaning too heavily on the etymology of the word rather than the industry definition.
- wvenable 3y ago
  It's the remedy: "Manufacturers are required to fix the problem by repairing it, replacing it, offering a refund, or in rare cases repurchasing the vehicle." This required the manufacturer to "recall" the vehicle physically to be repaired, replaced, or returned. That's why they used that word. But clearly that isn't needed for all "recalls" anymore. For an over-the-air software update, the NHTSA should find a better word that doesn't imply the need to recall the vehicle somewhere.
  - bumby 3y ago
    I definitely get it, but I just think it's being overly pedantic to try and make the point. The meanings of words change with the culture and I don't think this is an exception. English if rife with examples of colloquial uses that depart from their original meanings. The word "awful" derives from "inspiring awe." "Fathom" used to mean "to encircle with one's arms." "Myriad" used to mean, very specifically, 10,000 instances of an item. "Hussy" used to mean housewife. Etc. etc. In this era, I think most people assume "recall" to mean "a required fix" not necessarily "a trip to the car dealership."
    - wvenable 3y ago
      I think this entire topic proves your point wrong. The very top comment is exclaiming how insignificant this is compared to the headline. All the conversation here is a debate of this very issue in one way or another. We wouldn't even be talking about this at all if the word "recall" wasn't used. If it was just a called "a required over-the-air fix" it wouldn't have made it on to HN.
buffington 3y ago
Recall is a legal process that protects companies like Tesla. It has nothing to do with how the product is put together, how it functions, how it's used, whether it's software or hardware. Whether a company voluntarily issues a recall, or a recall is issued through a regulatory body, it's a process that ultimately attempts to fix safety problems with products sold to consumers, but does so in a way that protects the company from being sued for the problem.
tzs 3y ago
No, the term recall has long been used for cases where the defect could be addressed without returning the product. For example recalls of major appliances are usually handled by the manufacturer paying to have a repairperson come and repair the appliance in the consumer's home.

szundi 3y ago

This is since Elon told something nice about DeSantis

nickthegreek 3y ago

That is not what the word recall means. That is what you want it to mean. The governing body here is the NHTSA, here is their recall page where the term is defined. https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls >A recall is issued when a manufacturer or NHTSA determines that a vehicle, equipment, car seat, or tire creates an unreasonable safety risk or fails to meet minimum safety standards. Most decisions to conduct a recall and remedy a safety defect are made voluntarily by manufacturers prior to any involvement by NHTSA. >Manufacturers are required to fix the problem by repairing it, replacing it, offering a refund, or in rare cases repurchasing the vehicle.

wvenable 3y ago
Right because historically all of those things required you returning the vehicle somewhere to have that work done. That's why the NHTSA called it a "recall" in the first place. The idea that the manufacturer can fix a minor safety issue without the owner of the vehicle having to do anything is relatively new. The terminology is too broad now. It wasn't before, but it is now, because technology has changed.
jeff_tyrrill 3y ago
> That is not what the word recall means. That is what you want it to mean. No, it is the plain dictionary meaning of "recall"[1] (see sense #7, which states the "return of (a faulty product)". Words in headlines should be the plain dictionary meaning, not a legal term of art for specialists. [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/recall https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/recall
- nickthegreek 3y ago
  Then put your head in the sand. It’s not changing. The is and will continue to be called a Recall. No amount of chest beating or saber rattling is going to change that. Of all the inane concerns that I see appear on HN, this is the most ricidulous.

bumby 3y ago

Where did you find that definition? The NHTSA definition doesn't have any mention of "returning" a product. They define it as "when a manufacturer or NHTSA determines that a vehicle, piece of equipment, car seat, or tire poses an unreasonable safety risk." It's entirely based on risk and a duty to the consumer. It's possible that you're leaning too heavily on the etymology of the word rather than the industry definition.

wvenable 3y ago
It's the remedy: "Manufacturers are required to fix the problem by repairing it, replacing it, offering a refund, or in rare cases repurchasing the vehicle." This required the manufacturer to "recall" the vehicle physically to be repaired, replaced, or returned. That's why they used that word. But clearly that isn't needed for all "recalls" anymore. For an over-the-air software update, the NHTSA should find a better word that doesn't imply the need to recall the vehicle somewhere.
- bumby 3y ago
  I definitely get it, but I just think it's being overly pedantic to try and make the point. The meanings of words change with the culture and I don't think this is an exception. English if rife with examples of colloquial uses that depart from their original meanings. The word "awful" derives from "inspiring awe." "Fathom" used to mean "to encircle with one's arms." "Myriad" used to mean, very specifically, 10,000 instances of an item. "Hussy" used to mean housewife. Etc. etc. In this era, I think most people assume "recall" to mean "a required fix" not necessarily "a trip to the car dealership."
  - wvenable 3y ago
    I think this entire topic proves your point wrong. The very top comment is exclaiming how insignificant this is compared to the headline. All the conversation here is a debate of this very issue in one way or another. We wouldn't even be talking about this at all if the word "recall" wasn't used. If it was just a called "a required over-the-air fix" it wouldn't have made it on to HN.

buffington 3y ago

Recall is a legal process that protects companies like Tesla. It has nothing to do with how the product is put together, how it functions, how it's used, whether it's software or hardware. Whether a company voluntarily issues a recall, or a recall is issued through a regulatory body, it's a process that ultimately attempts to fix safety problems with products sold to consumers, but does so in a way that protects the company from being sued for the problem.

tzs 3y ago

No, the term recall has long been used for cases where the defect could be addressed without returning the product. For example recalls of major appliances are usually handled by the manufacturer paying to have a repairperson come and repair the appliance in the consumer's home.