5 ms·

In most countries you can't do any kind of work while in a tourist Visa, but this was never enforced, because it was so exceedingly rare for not to be on govern

In most countries you can't do any kind of work while in a tourist Visa, but this was never enforced, because it was so exceedingly rare for not to be on governments radar. But once it became more prevalent, it creates the problem (on governments view, especially post 9/11) of having a bunch of foreign folks living for months and receiving money from abroad for god knows which reason. This creates the problem for law enforcement of having to separate nomad workers from more shady characters that have exactly the same "signature": long term stays, getting regular money from above, not doing the usual tourist stuff that people that have money and free time enough to stay in a foreign country for months usually do. So, for law enforcement purposes, it makes sense to have an specific kind of Visa for those "working tourists", so they can pre-filter this population and get back to a smaller working set of persons of interest without the added noise of "working tourists" (digital nomad as a term is incorrect, after all, true nomads would be working locally)

kybernetyk 3y ago
>So, for law enforcement purposes, it makes sense to have an specific kind of Visa for those "working tourists", so they can pre-filter this population and get back to a smaller working set of persons of interest So I guess terrorists/bad actors won't get the idea to apply for this Visa to fly under the radar then?
- Jensson 3y ago
  Applying for a visa probably entails explaining where your money is coming from, such low effort barriers actually helps a ton since most criminals aren't very conscientious.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- lupire 3y ago
  There's a checkbox on the customs form that asks if you are a terrorist.
- nerdponx 3y ago
  Having a legally-legitimate drop-shipping / e-commerce business sounds like perfect cover for international drug smuggling and sex trafficking, as well as providing a convenient tool for laundering small amounts of money.
makeitdouble 3y ago
It's more about taxes. If you apply for a working visa you can be flagged as having revenue generated while in the country, so you'll pay an income tax on it. The other side of it is visa overstay: it's more financially viable for working people to overstay their visa, where pure tourist have to go back at some point. Terrorists will be flagged whatever they do, as international money transfers are already heavily scrutinized and under a working visa you still have to declare your work.
- dageshi 3y ago
  I doubt it's got much to do with either. Overstaying a visa is likely a criminal offense depending on the length of the overstay, these people still have to leave the country, they're going to get caught and flagged. At a minimum they'll be prevented from re-entry but chances are there could be real punishment. In terms of taxes, I really really doubt it, a DN is not taking a locals job, their clients & business are all out of country, their accounts and transactions are all overseas. Just figuring out what they owe and how to pay it in Japan would completely put people off using the Visa and I really doubt the Japanese government would think it worth the hassle for six months.
- xhkkffbf 3y ago
  Any idea of how much the tax might be in Japan? And how does it affect taxes in the US?
  - makeitdouble 3y ago
    On the tax amount, if you're interested in the details: https://www.nta.go.jp/english/taxes/individual/12006.htm https://www.nta.go.jp/english/taxes/individual/12006.htm I didn't go through all of it, but I'd expect it to be a tad less that 10% of the gross income. If you're a US resident, I think you pay them as well on that same income ?
  - Asparagirl 3y ago
    Not sure about the first part, but generally the way it works is that first you pay taxes to the country where you are a resident, and then you still must also pay taxes to the US by virtue of being a US citizen but you usually get a credit on those US taxes in the amount you already paid to your country of residence. Sometimes the country where you’re living has much higher taxes, so you end up not owing anything to the US — but you still have to file.
herbst 3y ago
When I was in Thailand about 7 or 8 years ago they just recently raided a co-working coffee and jailed the 'nomads' over night (as far as I remember) there was also regular talks about what to tell and not tell border patrol and official visa places. Most people I met just paid taxes 'at home' or were generally lost in limbo financially but there always was an awareness about this being illegal.
- nerdbert 3y ago
  > When I was in Thailand about 7 or 8 years ago they just recently raided a co-working coffee and jailed the 'nomads' over night That was because the authorities did not understand how co-working spaces operated, and had concluded that the foreigners in there were employees of the space's owner. They have since said that they will not repeat that, and have been true to their word so far.
- mekoka 3y ago
  You need to finish that story. Those people were released after it was made clear that they were not working for Thai companies. It was not about them working in Thailand while on a tourist visa. It was about not taking local jobs.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- beaeglebeached 3y ago
  A night or two in jail doesn't sound the worst for that kind of savings. Especially if you have someone to pay 'rent' for a nicer cell space.
  - herbst 3y ago
    What kind of savings? I live in Switzerland now and barely spend more in a lazy month than I did in 'super cheap thailand'
    - 3y ago
nomilk 3y ago
> In most countries you can't do any kind of work while in a tourist Visa, but this was never enforced That's because the laws exist to protect local jobs. Since nomads aren't 'stealing' local jobs, the laws serve their purpose despite them being broken all the time. All bets are off if a nomad decided to bar work or waiting at a restaurant! (or any other profession that takes a job from a local).
- elzbardico 3y ago
  Actually governments don't care too much about protecting local jobs. What really annoys them is not collecting their taxes.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ranger_danger 3y ago
> never enforced I've watched enough of those Border Security tv shows to know this is simply not true
fxtentacle 3y ago
My impression is that there's a considerable overlap between people monetizing digital nomad content and what citizens of their residence country would call "shady characters". https://www.inc.com/magazine/202309/eric-hagerman/how-mikkelsen-twins-built-a-50-million-a-year-business-around-one-product.html https://www.inc.com/magazine/202309/eric-hagerman/how-mikkel... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biYciU1uiUw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biYciU1uiUw

kybernetyk 3y ago

>So, for law enforcement purposes, it makes sense to have an specific kind of Visa for those "working tourists", so they can pre-filter this population and get back to a smaller working set of persons of interest So I guess terrorists/bad actors won't get the idea to apply for this Visa to fly under the radar then?

Jensson 3y ago
Applying for a visa probably entails explaining where your money is coming from, such low effort barriers actually helps a ton since most criminals aren't very conscientious.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
lupire 3y ago
There's a checkbox on the customs form that asks if you are a terrorist.
nerdponx 3y ago
Having a legally-legitimate drop-shipping / e-commerce business sounds like perfect cover for international drug smuggling and sex trafficking, as well as providing a convenient tool for laundering small amounts of money.

makeitdouble 3y ago

It's more about taxes. If you apply for a working visa you can be flagged as having revenue generated while in the country, so you'll pay an income tax on it. The other side of it is visa overstay: it's more financially viable for working people to overstay their visa, where pure tourist have to go back at some point. Terrorists will be flagged whatever they do, as international money transfers are already heavily scrutinized and under a working visa you still have to declare your work.

dageshi 3y ago
I doubt it's got much to do with either. Overstaying a visa is likely a criminal offense depending on the length of the overstay, these people still have to leave the country, they're going to get caught and flagged. At a minimum they'll be prevented from re-entry but chances are there could be real punishment. In terms of taxes, I really really doubt it, a DN is not taking a locals job, their clients & business are all out of country, their accounts and transactions are all overseas. Just figuring out what they owe and how to pay it in Japan would completely put people off using the Visa and I really doubt the Japanese government would think it worth the hassle for six months.
xhkkffbf 3y ago
Any idea of how much the tax might be in Japan? And how does it affect taxes in the US?
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  On the tax amount, if you're interested in the details: https://www.nta.go.jp/english/taxes/individual/12006.htm https://www.nta.go.jp/english/taxes/individual/12006.htm I didn't go through all of it, but I'd expect it to be a tad less that 10% of the gross income. If you're a US resident, I think you pay them as well on that same income ?
- Asparagirl 3y ago
  Not sure about the first part, but generally the way it works is that first you pay taxes to the country where you are a resident, and then you still must also pay taxes to the US by virtue of being a US citizen but you usually get a credit on those US taxes in the amount you already paid to your country of residence. Sometimes the country where you’re living has much higher taxes, so you end up not owing anything to the US — but you still have to file.

herbst 3y ago

When I was in Thailand about 7 or 8 years ago they just recently raided a co-working coffee and jailed the 'nomads' over night (as far as I remember) there was also regular talks about what to tell and not tell border patrol and official visa places. Most people I met just paid taxes 'at home' or were generally lost in limbo financially but there always was an awareness about this being illegal.

nerdbert 3y ago
> When I was in Thailand about 7 or 8 years ago they just recently raided a co-working coffee and jailed the 'nomads' over night That was because the authorities did not understand how co-working spaces operated, and had concluded that the foreigners in there were employees of the space's owner. They have since said that they will not repeat that, and have been true to their word so far.
mekoka 3y ago
You need to finish that story. Those people were released after it was made clear that they were not working for Thai companies. It was not about them working in Thailand while on a tourist visa. It was about not taking local jobs.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
beaeglebeached 3y ago
A night or two in jail doesn't sound the worst for that kind of savings. Especially if you have someone to pay 'rent' for a nicer cell space.
- herbst 3y ago
  What kind of savings? I live in Switzerland now and barely spend more in a lazy month than I did in 'super cheap thailand'
  - 3y ago

nomilk 3y ago

> In most countries you can't do any kind of work while in a tourist Visa, but this was never enforced That's because the laws exist to protect local jobs. Since nomads aren't 'stealing' local jobs, the laws serve their purpose despite them being broken all the time. All bets are off if a nomad decided to bar work or waiting at a restaurant! (or any other profession that takes a job from a local).

elzbardico 3y ago
Actually governments don't care too much about protecting local jobs. What really annoys them is not collecting their taxes.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ranger_danger 3y ago

> never enforced I've watched enough of those Border Security tv shows to know this is simply not true

fxtentacle 3y ago

My impression is that there's a considerable overlap between people monetizing digital nomad content and what citizens of their residence country would call "shady characters". https://www.inc.com/magazine/202309/eric-hagerman/how-mikkelsen-twins-built-a-50-million-a-year-business-around-one-product.html https://www.inc.com/magazine/202309/eric-hagerman/how-mikkel... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biYciU1uiUw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biYciU1uiUw