5 ms·

No, this is the correct interpretation in a lot of countries, you are performing paid work there regardless of who and where the employer is. Emergencies are a

No, this is the correct interpretation in a lot of countries, you are performing paid work there regardless of who and where the employer is. Emergencies are all well and good, but turning up at the immigration desk and saying you don’t plan on working when you actually do will lead to trouble in a lot of places.

oldtownroad 3y ago
Can you share the tourist visa regulations for Japan that say this? I haven’t been able to find any. Thank you :)
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  That's implied. If you're working with your tourist visa you're changing the purpose of your stay and thus lying regarding your visa declaration: > Single-entry short-term stay visa for the purpose of Tourism (for a period of up to 90 days) (Note). > [...] > If you wish to visit Japan for other purposes or for a long-term stay, please submit your application to the Japanese Embassy, Consulate General or Consular office with jurisdiction over your place of residence. https://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/visaonline.html https://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/visaonline.html
  - nerdbert 3y ago
    The purpose of the visit is still tourism, even when people are also working remotely. Otherwise they could have stayed home and worked remotely.
    - makeitdouble 3y ago
      That's like saying your purpose is enjoying the scenery, because even if you're shooting a new photo book, you put your pleasure above all and taking professional photos while looking at the landscape is just a small detail. I mean, we can invent a lot of way to present it, it all comes down to how the immigration office interprets it (as far as I know, the only real test is suing them when they ask for the money)
    - makeitdouble 3y ago
      Setting aside my other response, a better way to look at it is that you declare your purpose on entry, but you're not the one judging if it's appropriate or not. We/You can see remote work as not invalidating your claim, but that's just how we feel, not how it will be judged. To your larger point, the rules being mildly fuzzy aren't helping foreigners in general, it's usually more leeway for the authorities to pick and choose.
- resoluteteeth 3y ago
  I'm not sure if there's a specific rule that says that explicitly, but you aren't allowed to work if you are in Japan on a tourist visa, and the government's opinion is that this includes remote work for a company outside of japan, so it doesn't really matter that there's no rule saying that explicitly. That's also the whole reason for potentially introducing this new type of visa; if you were allowed to do remote work on a tourist visa, they wouldn't need to do this.
  - oldtownroad 3y ago
    I’m asking because I visit Japan on a tourist visa and I have never encountered this rule. I’d like to learn more about it from official sources. The purpose of a digital nomad visa is to allow for a longer stay.
    - resoluteteeth 3y ago
      > I’m asking because I visit Japan on a tourist visa and I have never encountered this rule. I’d like to learn more about it from official sources. Unfortunately, I don't think this a specific rule which makes it hard to point to a source, but you simply aren't allowed to work in any form if you are in Japan on a tourist visa, and from the government's perspective, this obviously includes remote work. If you want some specific government opinion in writing saying that remote work is illegal under tourist visas under current law, after the government holds public comment, it usually publishes an interim report compiling the comments it has received along with analysis, and I imagine that in this case the report will note this, but right now I can't find an official document stating this. However, googling it, there are various opinions from law firms agreeing that it is illegal. There is also no reason you would have "encountered" this because the only way you would be able to encounter it is if you somehow made the government aware that you were illegally working remotely and they deported you. It's basically impossible for them to tell if you are working remotely though, so it's almost a moot point in most cases unless you specifically go out of your way to make the government aware.
      - nerdbert 3y ago
- mytailorisrich 3y ago
  I have found this: The Temporary Visitor Visa is for activities not exceeding 90 days as follows: tourism, visiting relatives or friends, recreation, convalescence, attending a conference, participation in unpaid lectures, meetings, amateur athletic meetings or other contests, short business trips (e.g. market surveys, business talks, after sales service for machinery imported into Japan) This category excludes profit-making operations and paid activities. [1] Usually, paid work means just that. The thing of course is that you do remote paid work it is unlikely that anyone will notice, especially if you indeed only stay for a few weeks. Plus if business trips are ok, then I suppose noone will care. [1] https://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/visaonline.html https://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/visaonline.html
- sirn 3y ago
  IANAL, but it's written in Immigration Act Article 19, Paragraph 1, No 2 (入管法19条１項２号)[1]. Here's a translation from Japanese Law Translation[2]^1 > Article 19 (1) Any foreign national who is a resident under a status of residence listed in the left-hand column of Appended Table I shall not engage in the activities set forth in the following items, with regard to the categories identified therein, except for cases where he/she engages in them with permission as set forth in paragraph (2) of this Article. > (ii) A foreign national who is a resident with a status of residence listed in the left-hand column of Appended Tables I (3) and I (4): activities related to the management of a business involving income or activities for which he/she receives remuneration. The quoted "Appended Table I (3)" (別表第一の三) says: > Temporary Visitor > Sightseeing, recreation, sports, visiting relatives, inspection tours, participating in lectures or meetings, business contact or other similar activities during a short stay in Japan. None of this says "within Japan", which from my understanding is that it allows for the maximum interpretation of the law, i.e. "involving income or activities for which he/she receives remuneration [from anywhere]" with the noted activities in Appendix Table being the exception. Either way, it depends on how immigration interpret the law. [1]: https://elaws.e-gov.go.jp/document?lawid=326CO0000000319 https://elaws.e-gov.go.jp/document?lawid=326CO0000000319 [2]: https://www.japaneselawtranslation.go.jp/en/laws/view/1934/en https://www.japaneselawtranslation.go.jp/en/laws/view/1934/e... ^1: - (i) is not quoted here since it's about a mid-long term stay visa, i.e. work visa - Paragraph (2) is about obtaining permission to receive remuneration (which is a different thing from (ii) quoted above).
nerdbert 3y ago
In what places has it led to trouble for tourists to work remotely in their hotel rooms or Airbnbs? Leaving aside cases when those tourists brought that trouble and scrutiny on themselves through other actions like getting into barfights or shoplifting.
- resoluteteeth 3y ago
  It would be fairly hard to detect so it's not surprising that it hasn't led to trouble in most cases, but that doesn't mean it's actually legal.
- ta1243 3y ago
  Just because people break copyright law all the time and it's not enforced doesn't mean it's legal to do so. Same principle here I know I broke the law on the way back from the station earlier as I did 61mph in a 60 zone. Just because I didn't get caught doesn't make it legal.
  - medvezhenok 3y ago
    There is a difference between de jure and de facto. Defacto, going 61mph in a 60 is legal practically everywhere. De jure, it's not (the law is on the books). Same as jaywalking. It's more of a law to pass responsibility in an accident (i.e. if you were jaywalking and got hit by a motor vehicle - you are at fault because of jaywalking. Jaywalking itself is very rarely prosecuted as a standalone thing)
  - nerdbert 3y ago
    I'm not taking a position on its legality. In most cases that's undefined because the law did not anticipate this situation and it's never been tested in court. They obviously can't prohibit people from checking emails or taking work calls while on vacation, because that means the end of big-spending tourists. Nobody has drawn a red line at a magic point along the continuum from one emergency work call during a two-week holiday, to 9 hours a day in a hotel room hunched over a computer. Where would it be, and why does that particular point maximize benefit for the host country?
  - 3y ago
syspec 3y ago
How do business trips work then?
- alibarber 3y ago
  You get a business visa. I have had several. For some countries they offer Visa Waivers.
- Uehreka 3y ago
  When you get to the passport control desk and they ask you “business or pleasure”, you answer “business” and then depending on the arrangements between your home country and the country you’re entering they may need to you show them a business visa.

oldtownroad 3y ago

Can you share the tourist visa regulations for Japan that say this? I haven’t been able to find any. Thank you :)

makeitdouble 3y ago
That's implied. If you're working with your tourist visa you're changing the purpose of your stay and thus lying regarding your visa declaration: > Single-entry short-term stay visa for the purpose of Tourism (for a period of up to 90 days) (Note). > [...] > If you wish to visit Japan for other purposes or for a long-term stay, please submit your application to the Japanese Embassy, Consulate General or Consular office with jurisdiction over your place of residence. https://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/visaonline.html https://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/visaonline.html
- nerdbert 3y ago
  The purpose of the visit is still tourism, even when people are also working remotely. Otherwise they could have stayed home and worked remotely.
  - makeitdouble 3y ago
    That's like saying your purpose is enjoying the scenery, because even if you're shooting a new photo book, you put your pleasure above all and taking professional photos while looking at the landscape is just a small detail. I mean, we can invent a lot of way to present it, it all comes down to how the immigration office interprets it (as far as I know, the only real test is suing them when they ask for the money)
  - makeitdouble 3y ago
    Setting aside my other response, a better way to look at it is that you declare your purpose on entry, but you're not the one judging if it's appropriate or not. We/You can see remote work as not invalidating your claim, but that's just how we feel, not how it will be judged. To your larger point, the rules being mildly fuzzy aren't helping foreigners in general, it's usually more leeway for the authorities to pick and choose.
resoluteteeth 3y ago
I'm not sure if there's a specific rule that says that explicitly, but you aren't allowed to work if you are in Japan on a tourist visa, and the government's opinion is that this includes remote work for a company outside of japan, so it doesn't really matter that there's no rule saying that explicitly. That's also the whole reason for potentially introducing this new type of visa; if you were allowed to do remote work on a tourist visa, they wouldn't need to do this.
- oldtownroad 3y ago
  I’m asking because I visit Japan on a tourist visa and I have never encountered this rule. I’d like to learn more about it from official sources. The purpose of a digital nomad visa is to allow for a longer stay.
  - resoluteteeth 3y ago
    > I’m asking because I visit Japan on a tourist visa and I have never encountered this rule. I’d like to learn more about it from official sources. Unfortunately, I don't think this a specific rule which makes it hard to point to a source, but you simply aren't allowed to work in any form if you are in Japan on a tourist visa, and from the government's perspective, this obviously includes remote work. If you want some specific government opinion in writing saying that remote work is illegal under tourist visas under current law, after the government holds public comment, it usually publishes an interim report compiling the comments it has received along with analysis, and I imagine that in this case the report will note this, but right now I can't find an official document stating this. However, googling it, there are various opinions from law firms agreeing that it is illegal. There is also no reason you would have "encountered" this because the only way you would be able to encounter it is if you somehow made the government aware that you were illegally working remotely and they deported you. It's basically impossible for them to tell if you are working remotely though, so it's almost a moot point in most cases unless you specifically go out of your way to make the government aware.
    - nerdbert 3y ago
mytailorisrich 3y ago
I have found this: The Temporary Visitor Visa is for activities not exceeding 90 days as follows: tourism, visiting relatives or friends, recreation, convalescence, attending a conference, participation in unpaid lectures, meetings, amateur athletic meetings or other contests, short business trips (e.g. market surveys, business talks, after sales service for machinery imported into Japan) This category excludes profit-making operations and paid activities. [1] Usually, paid work means just that. The thing of course is that you do remote paid work it is unlikely that anyone will notice, especially if you indeed only stay for a few weeks. Plus if business trips are ok, then I suppose noone will care. [1] https://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/visaonline.html https://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/visaonline.html
sirn 3y ago
IANAL, but it's written in Immigration Act Article 19, Paragraph 1, No 2 (入管法19条１項２号)[1]. Here's a translation from Japanese Law Translation[2]^1 > Article 19 (1) Any foreign national who is a resident under a status of residence listed in the left-hand column of Appended Table I shall not engage in the activities set forth in the following items, with regard to the categories identified therein, except for cases where he/she engages in them with permission as set forth in paragraph (2) of this Article. > (ii) A foreign national who is a resident with a status of residence listed in the left-hand column of Appended Tables I (3) and I (4): activities related to the management of a business involving income or activities for which he/she receives remuneration. The quoted "Appended Table I (3)" (別表第一の三) says: > Temporary Visitor > Sightseeing, recreation, sports, visiting relatives, inspection tours, participating in lectures or meetings, business contact or other similar activities during a short stay in Japan. None of this says "within Japan", which from my understanding is that it allows for the maximum interpretation of the law, i.e. "involving income or activities for which he/she receives remuneration [from anywhere]" with the noted activities in Appendix Table being the exception. Either way, it depends on how immigration interpret the law. [1]: https://elaws.e-gov.go.jp/document?lawid=326CO0000000319 https://elaws.e-gov.go.jp/document?lawid=326CO0000000319 [2]: https://www.japaneselawtranslation.go.jp/en/laws/view/1934/en https://www.japaneselawtranslation.go.jp/en/laws/view/1934/e... ^1: - (i) is not quoted here since it's about a mid-long term stay visa, i.e. work visa - Paragraph (2) is about obtaining permission to receive remuneration (which is a different thing from (ii) quoted above).

nerdbert 3y ago

In what places has it led to trouble for tourists to work remotely in their hotel rooms or Airbnbs? Leaving aside cases when those tourists brought that trouble and scrutiny on themselves through other actions like getting into barfights or shoplifting.

resoluteteeth 3y ago
It would be fairly hard to detect so it's not surprising that it hasn't led to trouble in most cases, but that doesn't mean it's actually legal.
ta1243 3y ago
Just because people break copyright law all the time and it's not enforced doesn't mean it's legal to do so. Same principle here I know I broke the law on the way back from the station earlier as I did 61mph in a 60 zone. Just because I didn't get caught doesn't make it legal.
- medvezhenok 3y ago
  There is a difference between de jure and de facto. Defacto, going 61mph in a 60 is legal practically everywhere. De jure, it's not (the law is on the books). Same as jaywalking. It's more of a law to pass responsibility in an accident (i.e. if you were jaywalking and got hit by a motor vehicle - you are at fault because of jaywalking. Jaywalking itself is very rarely prosecuted as a standalone thing)
- nerdbert 3y ago
  I'm not taking a position on its legality. In most cases that's undefined because the law did not anticipate this situation and it's never been tested in court. They obviously can't prohibit people from checking emails or taking work calls while on vacation, because that means the end of big-spending tourists. Nobody has drawn a red line at a magic point along the continuum from one emergency work call during a two-week holiday, to 9 hours a day in a hotel room hunched over a computer. Where would it be, and why does that particular point maximize benefit for the host country?
- 3y ago

syspec 3y ago

How do business trips work then?

alibarber 3y ago
You get a business visa. I have had several. For some countries they offer Visa Waivers.
Uehreka 3y ago
When you get to the passport control desk and they ask you “business or pleasure”, you answer “business” and then depending on the arrangements between your home country and the country you’re entering they may need to you show them a business visa.