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Tell HN: Stop using LLMs to apply to jobs
It’s really easy to eliminate them because they all answer our hiring questions the same way.
- andy99 3y ago> It’s really easy to eliminate them Isn't that a good thing?
- samstave 3y agoNot if you're on the opposite end of a shitty job market attempting to find any way to get a foot in. The market sucks, and cynicism is growing among all parties.
- nonrandomstring 3y ago> Not if you're on the opposite end of a shitty job market attempting to find any way to get a foot in. The market sucks, and cynicism is growing among all parties. What you say is interesting, because I am watching this "market" carefully as an educator. The disconnection you speak of is real and worrying. Each day we read stories about layoffs and talented people desperately seeking a job. Each day we read an equal number of stories about how tech firms cannot hire anyone. We hear of "massive skills shortage". In cybersecurity we have 50 jobs to fill for every candidate we can train. How is this mismatch possible? Someone, somewhere is lying. In Little Britain we have Dafydd Thomas (Matt Lucas) the controversial "Only gay in the village". The running joke is that his gaydar is so broken (because he is so insular) that he misses every chance. Guys are coming on to him all the time, but he can't see it [0]. That is "industry". It's so misunderstood, so delicate, and special, and hard-done-to. So called "industry", insofar as it's a collection of HR people with completely made up job-descriptions based on a drunken game of buzzword bingo, hasn't the first clue what it really wants. Likewise we have universities that churn out tepid, conformist graduates who nobody would ever want to employ. If they're lucky most of them have been taught by adjuncts and temps using materials that are 10 years out of date. If they're unlucky they were taught remotely by some Microsoft product, and would certainly have learned more from just picking up and reading the first chapter of any decent textbook. I'm talking about the UK now, but I'm sure the same disconnect applies to similar cultures. A dating game in which both parties are motivated to lie, is just round after round of disappointment. I wish you luck. My advice is steer clear of any company big enough to have an HR department. [0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/littlebritain/characters/daffyd.shtml https://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/littlebritain/characters/daffyd...
- samstave 3y ago>universities that churn out tepid, conformist graduates who nobody would ever want to employ We call them MBA's in these here parts.
- yellowapple 3y ago> How is this mismatch possible? Someone, somewhere is lying. Yeah, and it's the fucking "employers". They put up fake job listings to look like they're "growing" (which makes investors happy) while they simultaneously lay off substantial fractions of their workforce for quick bumps in short-term profit (which makes investors happy). Who cares about human decency as long as "line goes up", right? Any "employer" claiming "nobody wants to work" or that there's a "skills shortage" can kindly and respectfully eat an entire bag of dicks. They're literally the problem. And before someone predictably complains that I'm breaking HN's civility rule: nothing about this socioeconomic system is "civil". It's indeed fundamentally uncivil to the core. I'm only responding to that lack of civility, and my remarks are a product of it, myself being a victim of it alongside countless others.
- nonrandomstring 3y agoYou know that "be the change you want to see" thing. I hope you'll find a way to become the business-person and employer you'd like to work for, and set your own standards of civility. It can be done.
- yellowapple 3y agoI'd love to be that change! I'm indeed putting some of the pieces together to that effect. The problem is around money; kinda hard to hire people without it - and I'd definitely want to hire someone good at sales, since I suck at it. But first I need to get something built for that person to sell in the first place :)
- breckenedge 3y agoI figured folks that use HN deserved a heads up. At the very least, turn up the damn temperature so that the responses are varied.
- spidersenses 3y agoStop generating your hiring questions with LLMs first.
- breckenedge 3y agoWe don’t.
- jrflowers 3y agoThis is useful since you have told us what company you’re hiring for
- dsattt 3y agoThat’s funny, because I’m going to start using them to apply for jobs.
- breckenedge 3y agoThere’s gotta be a service or library people are using for this because we’re getting a ton of duplicate responses to our questions. At least turn up the temperature if you do this.
- clusterhacks 3y agoShare some numbers - I'm totally curious how many applicants you are getting for roles total/applicants that you easily identify as using LLMs. Even ballpark would be ok, "We got 40+ applicants for a senior software engineer, at least 50% had identical answers to our questions." I have some theories about the duplicate answers that go beyond LLM usage . . .
- breckenedge 3y agoYour ballpark is a bit high. I’d say 30% of 250 so far
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- zerr 3y agoWhy would you eliminate someone for using LLMs? Assuming Lycosing is allowed as well as browsing Experts Exchange... LLMs are new search engines.
- solardev 3y ago> Lycosing What's that? Karaoke with old search engines?
- g4zj 3y agoIf candidates are using LLMs to generate answers to your hiring questions, perhaps it's your questions that are the problem. Care to share some of them?
- paulcole 3y agoWhere I work we ask some candidates in client-facing roles how they’d respond to a hypothetical email from a client about a situation they’re likely to face in the job. I know an LLM can easily generate a pretty OK and boring reply. But I want to get to know how the person we’re considering would answer it so we can talk about their approach in their next (and final) interview. We ask people nicely to not use an LLM and explain our reasoning. They can still use one if they want of course.
- OJFord 3y agoWell.. I guess they'd use an LLM? And if the result is 'a pretty OK and boring reply' maybe that's fine or even good?
- Sateeshm 3y agoYou should probably read the resumes than asking the candidates to answer your questions before an interview.
- mattbrewsbytes 3y agoI'm tempted to make snarky comments about how its a red flag if a company is asking open ended questions with a textbox as part of an initial screen but I'll be open minded and ask: What hiring questions are you asking?
- solardev 3y ago"Your boss asks you to travel back in time to kill baby John Connor, but you've fallen in love with his granddaughter. What do you do?"
- breckenedge 3y agoOne is a basic technical question that I’ve been asked a handful of times in interviews. We could eliminate the question, but then we’d need to have hundreds of phone screens and literally ask the same question. That’s not feasible. So this is how we screen. We’ve received over 250 applications in ~1 day.
- mattbrewsbytes 3y agoIs that a quality way to screen though? Anyone can look up answers to basic technical questions. Also have you considered that maybe ChatGPT itself is applying? Its gotta feed all those babyGpts when it gets home from work. Might be a good hire, LOL.
- breckenedge 3y agoSure any GPT can answer it, but when 10 or 20 candidates say exactly the same thing, it’s pretty obvious. We’re asking for an opinion on a technical matter. The opinion itself doesn’t really matter, just that you have one and can communicate it. And I already pay ChatGPT.
- markus_zhang 3y agoI mean people can still modify the answers. Let me say that in the era of LLM it's probably a lot better just to change the interview format -- for example, put questions and coding tests in zoom/in person instead of online.
- breckenedge 3y agoThat’s infeasible based on the number of candidates who have applied.
- gngoo 3y agoSounds like your hiring is the problem. Not people applying with LLMs.
- JamesLeonis 3y agoMaybe slip in a poison string [0] in your questions that trip up the LLMs? [0]: https://twitter.com/goodside/status/1745511940351287394 https://twitter.com/goodside/status/1745511940351287394
- vlod 3y agoTELL Employers: Stop using LLMs/AI to filter job applications. I'm convinced that 99% of my applications are not getting through to a human.
- breckenedge 3y agoThat’s not happening in this case.
- ecf 3y agoUnfortunately this ship has sailed. The job market is broken right now for software engineers and it’s far easier to use AI to apply to a hundred jobs in the of hopes one gets backs to you instead of 5 handcrafted applications per day that have tailored responses.
- jrflowers 3y agoAttn applicants across the job market: stop using ChatGPT to write answers! This advice does not apply to people doing hiring though, as I personally do not use it for that purpose for the company that I decline to mention