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It reminds me of the epiphany I had while playing strategy games - it began to feel like mucking around with a very large spreadsheet or database, and then it w
by hardlianotion 3y ago
It reminds me of the epiphany I had while playing strategy games - it began to feel like mucking around with a very large spreadsheet or database, and then it was difficult to see what separated my hours playing them from actual work.
- squaresmile 3y agoYeah, sometimes I have the realization that I don't need to open the game at all, I can just play the game in Excel.
- altairTF 3y agoDon't ruin it for the rest of us!
- xyzzy_plugh 3y agoThis is what makes Zachtronics games so devilishly good and horrific -- they are the asymptotic expression of work as games. You can't not see it.
- Pet_Ant 3y agoZachtronics is getting to roleplay the job I want to have instead of building enterprise CRUD apps. I get pride and self-worth from my Zachtronics work and money from my day job. (I went into IT because I liked solving challenging problems, not because I wanted a lucrative career.)
- dreamworld 3y agoIs it him that is seeing an asymptotic expression of work as games, or you who are seeing an expression of his games as work? In other words, what's so bad about games looking like work, or work looking like a game, if they're deep, fun and engrossing? If the job or the game is terrible, discard it: maybe the real difference is we can't always discard the job because we need to survive.
- xyzzy_plugh 3y agoThat's what makes it art.
- ThrowawayR2 3y agoI took one look at Zachtronics' TIS-100 and similar games and decided I'd rather learn actual ARM assembly language. At least I'd wind up with a usable real world skill at the end of it.
- falcolas 3y agoFWIW, I would consider the problem solving in exceptionally constrained environments to be the gained skill. The language is just one of dozens you'll learn as a developer or engineer.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ThrowawayR2 3y agoHaving coded in environments that would be considered tiny by modern standards, the constraints in Zachtronics' games don't meaningfully resemble real world constraints.
- falcolas 3y agoYou're absolutely correct. But as they say, if you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball. It doesn't have to resemble real world constraints to be a useful exercise.
- fxtentacle 3y agoI hope that means you turned your hobby into a job and you're now a professional spreadsheet designer :)
- hartator 3y agoYes, exactly. Gaming scratches the same itch as coding.
- danuker 3y agoI remember being most productive at work when I was also indulging in Factorio. Maybe I should get back to both.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y agoHigh reflex games don't scratch the same itch, thinking of Hades: prediction and reflexes are not something I encounter at work
- encom 3y agoI did a lot of calculations while playing Satisfactory to optimise my production line. Getting every part of a production line tuned just right was amazing. No regrets.
- PaulHoule 3y agoI wish there were more games like Advance Wars that are turn based and have a character like chess. For one thing you can play a game like this on a portable while walking or riding the bus or spinning at the gym because you can always step away from it. It is all about how a small set of elements recombine in carefully designed levels. I like the Fire Emblem series but they come across as less legitimate as the elements of RPG grinding, character attributes and equipment management are introduced. Fire Emblem tries to introduce a "weapons triangle" with a rock-scissors-paper element but it's not very meaningful because it gets overwhelmed by the scaling of high level characters.
- busterarm 3y agoAnd then there's those of us who play EVE Online or Prosperous Universe and lean into spreadsheeting hard.
- david422 3y agoI think this happens with any game - or in fact any life skill actually. In the beginning everything is novel. You play for fun, you enjoy the activity. And after you've done it for a while, you decide you want to be a little bit better. And to get better, you start having to do work - real work. You have to start repetition, you have to start crunching numbers etc. to get incrementally better.
- quaffapint 3y agoSo much this. I used to love playing games as a kid, but now I watch game demos now and all it looks like to me is work. Someone/thing telling me to go do this and that. Keep track of all my work so I can be assigned more of it. I might as well just go code something.