3 ms·

I very much doubt it, and it’s probably going to do the opposite. CRA just brings the kind paperwork that physical products have always had to be licensed in t

I very much doubt it, and it’s probably going to do the opposite. CRA just brings the kind paperwork that physical products have always had to be licensed in the EU (CE marking) to software. Have you seen european companies investing in Open source hardware? The path of least resistance will be to use homegrown alternatives and sell them to potential investors and shareholders as valuable intellectual property that puts them ahead of competitors. Not only because that makes perfect business sense, but because this kind of IP is very hard to value fairly, so it will allow for a variety of accounting and tax avoidance shenanigans.

snowpid 3y ago
For a useful comparison you need to show if open source hardware is more common / more invested in other parts of the world. E. G. Risc V has a growing momentum https://riscv.org/blog/2023/07/the-growing-momentum-of-risc-v-in-europe/ https://riscv.org/blog/2023/07/the-growing-momentum-of-risc-...
demondemidi 3y ago
Really? Specific security requirements for iot devices “have always” been in existence? I’d really like to know the source for that. I sound snarky because I work in security and am unfamiliar with what you describe. I could also not be very good at my job.
- xondono 3y ago
  No, but devices have strict regulations and paperwork intended to keep people safe. Keeping people safe when it comes to software means first and foremost having good security.
- rcxdude 3y ago
  I think they were speaking more generally: the requirements in the legislation are similar in structure to the kind of safety/serviceability requirements that already exist for hardware being sold in the EU (much of which is just self-certifying you have implemented the relevant standards). Having security requirements and applying them to pure software products is what's new.
riffraff 3y ago
> Have you seen european companies investing in Open source hardware? Arduino and RepRap are poster children of open source hardware, and originated in the EU, I think.
- xondono 3y ago
  They are, but both were born out universities not companies, so I’m not sure how this goes against my statement.
hcfman 3y ago
One more of the reasons I don’t make hardware.
- sgift 3y ago
  And the people who don't get electrocuted by your non-CE-compliant hardware are thankful for that. Good thing the equivalent is coming to software.
  - xondono 3y ago
    Most people over estimate how effective CE marking is. For example, CE only prevents people from selling products. For example, I’ve done pilot tests (city wide installations of urban equipment) with devices that, while I knew they’d be compliant, we had done 0 tests. It’s also fairly trivial and common to cheat at the tests. Most EMC testing is done in conditions that aren’t necessarily the normal operating conditions and with “accessories”. If anything else fails, aside from medical or safety critical devices, you could always self certify and roll the dice, it’s way more common than what people think.

snowpid 3y ago

For a useful comparison you need to show if open source hardware is more common / more invested in other parts of the world. E. G. Risc V has a growing momentum https://riscv.org/blog/2023/07/the-growing-momentum-of-risc-v-in-europe/ https://riscv.org/blog/2023/07/the-growing-momentum-of-risc-...

demondemidi 3y ago

Really? Specific security requirements for iot devices “have always” been in existence? I’d really like to know the source for that. I sound snarky because I work in security and am unfamiliar with what you describe. I could also not be very good at my job.

xondono 3y ago
No, but devices have strict regulations and paperwork intended to keep people safe. Keeping people safe when it comes to software means first and foremost having good security.
rcxdude 3y ago
I think they were speaking more generally: the requirements in the legislation are similar in structure to the kind of safety/serviceability requirements that already exist for hardware being sold in the EU (much of which is just self-certifying you have implemented the relevant standards). Having security requirements and applying them to pure software products is what's new.

riffraff 3y ago

> Have you seen european companies investing in Open source hardware? Arduino and RepRap are poster children of open source hardware, and originated in the EU, I think.

xondono 3y ago
They are, but both were born out universities not companies, so I’m not sure how this goes against my statement.

hcfman 3y ago

One more of the reasons I don’t make hardware.

sgift 3y ago
And the people who don't get electrocuted by your non-CE-compliant hardware are thankful for that. Good thing the equivalent is coming to software.
- xondono 3y ago
  Most people over estimate how effective CE marking is. For example, CE only prevents people from selling products. For example, I’ve done pilot tests (city wide installations of urban equipment) with devices that, while I knew they’d be compliant, we had done 0 tests. It’s also fairly trivial and common to cheat at the tests. Most EMC testing is done in conditions that aren’t necessarily the normal operating conditions and with “accessories”. If anything else fails, aside from medical or safety critical devices, you could always self certify and roll the dice, it’s way more common than what people think.