3 ms·

It's a problem for both because by tying browser updates to OS releases, you lower adoption, since some people avoid system updates or delay them. And it's mor

It's a problem for both because by tying browser updates to OS releases, you lower adoption, since some people avoid system updates or delay them. And it's more of a problem for iOS because all browsers have to use system-issued WebKit, and previous releases only receive updates for vulnerabilities that Apple knows are being actively exploited in the wild, not for all vulnerabilities (as if Apple was omniscient and knew for certain what's being actively exploited), and not for features/API/webcompat updates. If there was an IndexedDB bug, you're not getting a fix unless you're on the latest iOS. Meanwhile Android 8.0 Oreo gets the latest Chrome with all bug fixes, new CSS features, etc. Apple is actively screwing users and webdevs by tying browser and OS updates, and by restricting alternate iOS browser engines outside the EU.

JimDabell 3y ago
> Meanwhile Android 8.0 Oreo gets the latest Chrome with all bug fixes, new CSS features, etc. That’s only necessary because of the abysmal upgrade rates for Android. iOS is very different. People upgrade quickly. >70% have upgraded to iOS 17 since it was released in September. >22% are on the previous release. <8% are using something older. https://mixpanel.com/trends/#report/ios_17/from_date:-3,report_unit:day,to_date:0 https://mixpanel.com/trends/#report/ios_17/from_date:-3,repo...
- concinds 3y ago
  > That’s only necessary because of the abysmal upgrade rates for Android So what. 30% of iOS users aren't updating for whatever reason (phone too old, or they don't want their phone to slow down), so they have an outdated WebKit with known vulnerabilities. 95% of Android users have the latest Chrome. 99%+ can have the latest Firefox (Android 5.0 minimum). There's no benefit to Apple's rigidness.
  - JimDabell 3y ago
    > 30% of iOS users aren't updating for whatever reason That is not what the figures show. The figures show that over 90% of iOS users are upgrading. I believe you’ve mistaken are not on the latest version with aren’t upgrading. Those 22% are upgrading, it just takes them 12–24 months to do so. > so they have an outdated WebKit with known vulnerabilities. This is not true. Apple pushes security updates for old versions and includes a setting so that phones can auto-apply security patches even if the user doesn’t want to do a full upgrade to the latest version automatically.
    - concinds 3y ago
      Only people on the latest version get the latest Safari, that's the relevant number. And I already addressed older versions. They get updates but only for vulnerabilities that Apple "is aware" are being exploited in the wild, not all vulnerabilities Apple has fixed in the newest version (yet Apple isn't omniscient about what gets used in the wild). And no updates for rendering bugs, as far as I'm aware.

JimDabell 3y ago

> Meanwhile Android 8.0 Oreo gets the latest Chrome with all bug fixes, new CSS features, etc. That’s only necessary because of the abysmal upgrade rates for Android. iOS is very different. People upgrade quickly. >70% have upgraded to iOS 17 since it was released in September. >22% are on the previous release. <8% are using something older. https://mixpanel.com/trends/#report/ios_17/from_date:-3,report_unit:day,to_date:0 https://mixpanel.com/trends/#report/ios_17/from_date:-3,repo...

concinds 3y ago
> That’s only necessary because of the abysmal upgrade rates for Android So what. 30% of iOS users aren't updating for whatever reason (phone too old, or they don't want their phone to slow down), so they have an outdated WebKit with known vulnerabilities. 95% of Android users have the latest Chrome. 99%+ can have the latest Firefox (Android 5.0 minimum). There's no benefit to Apple's rigidness.
- JimDabell 3y ago
  > 30% of iOS users aren't updating for whatever reason That is not what the figures show. The figures show that over 90% of iOS users are upgrading. I believe you’ve mistaken are not on the latest version with aren’t upgrading. Those 22% are upgrading, it just takes them 12–24 months to do so. > so they have an outdated WebKit with known vulnerabilities. This is not true. Apple pushes security updates for old versions and includes a setting so that phones can auto-apply security patches even if the user doesn’t want to do a full upgrade to the latest version automatically.
  - concinds 3y ago
    Only people on the latest version get the latest Safari, that's the relevant number. And I already addressed older versions. They get updates but only for vulnerabilities that Apple "is aware" are being exploited in the wild, not all vulnerabilities Apple has fixed in the newest version (yet Apple isn't omniscient about what gets used in the wild). And no updates for rendering bugs, as far as I'm aware.