4 ms·

One thing people should keep in mind is that rude responses are not only unpolite, they also usually suck at communicating the information you need communicated

by atoav 3y ago

One thing people should keep in mind is that rude responses are not only unpolite, they also usually suck at communicating the information you need communicated in order to get the job done effectively. Sure, effective communication could also come across rude in certain situations, but for most people being rude is not an active choice they make but something they feel entitled to. The rudest people I worked with typically also had some sort of insecurity, feelings of inadequacy, were overwhelmed by the role within their organization or with the workload they received etc. Being rude then can feel like a way to "fight back", only that it will usually not hit the people that are at fault/the root of the problem. This is all no excuse, being rude to innocent people is typically due to a lack of empathy. That colleague who insecurely asks a (somewhat naive) question about IT does not deserve to be treated rudely, just like you yourself would not like to be treated rudely when you had a (to them: naive) question to legal or HR. Sure if the same person keeps asking 10 times and it is the same answer each time, you could get stinky. But even there humour is superior to rudeness, because you feel better after it and it serves the same purpose of hinting that the other person might wanna get a grip.

stavros 3y ago
Depends on what you mean by rude. I just had a meeting that was trying to be polite and avoid blame, and completely failed to address the problem. Instead of "guys, there's this behavior X in the team that we don't want", it was "this is the behavior we want: X". I left the meeting feeling like "ok cool, no action to take then, we can all agree that we want X", instead of "shit, we've been doing Y instead of X, we really need to change that".
cbozeman 3y ago
I struggle with this one particularly because of the modern world. There's several layers to peel back on this onion, so let's take a look at them: > That colleague who insecurely asks a (somewhat naive) question about IT does not deserve to be treated rudely, just like you yourself would not like to be treated rudely when you had a (to them: naive) question to legal or HR. What did the colleague do before making their way to my desk or Teams / Slack / Chime / Whatever chat? Did they search this in their search engine of choice? Did they break out their manual - digital or print - and thumb / arrow key through it? Did they use the "Find" feature in their PDF program? If someone comes to me and says, "Hey, cbozeman, I have a question about <insert thing here>... I tried searching for the answer, but I didn't find anything really useful, and I couldn't find what I needed in the manual..." If you do that, you will have my undivided attention for as long as it takes to resolve your issue or answer your question. If, however, you did like one of our interns who emailed me saying, "I need access to \\OurServer\Training Committee. Big Boss says I have to watch training videos." "You aren't authorized to have access to that directory - it's even in the name - it's for the Training Committee only." "You're holding up my training, this is important, I have to do this!" "You can go to him and tell him that I told you, I'm not giving you access to that directory, you're not a member of the Training Committee and it's for their use only." Fast forward to later in the day and Big Boss swings by my office to let me know that Intern actually meant \\OurServer\Firm\Training Materials\Intern Training Videos. I asked him, "How do you know that?" "Because that's the UPN that I emailed to her in her onboarding email." "So she can't read?" "She can't read..." "Well, could be worse, at least she knows how to use File Explorer to even try to input the file path..." "Laughs." Yes, I will be rude to you if you are lazy and don't read. I will be rude to you if you do not care and do not want to learn. Every single person we hire - Hell, every single person every Fortune 500 company hires - must have "Basic" Computer Skills. It's right there in the job description for any job that sits in front of a computer. Basic Computer Skills. And just so I didn't lose my mind, I wrote an email to my old professor at my alma mater, and I asked him - after some pleasantries and asking how he was doing, "If you had to break down what entails "basic computer skills" in the year 2023, what would that look like?" Here is his response: "Hi cbozeman, I'm glad you're doing well in your life and career... yadda yadda blah blah... Here is PDF of a page of my newest introductory textbook that we use in IT and BIS courses regarding, "Basic Computer Skills". Hopefully this is instructive." It was. Here is his list of what constitutes, "Basic Computer Skills": When companies mention "Basic Computing Skills" in job descriptions or requirements, they typically refer to a set of foundational skills in using computers that are considered essential for most office or administrative roles. These skills usually include: 1. Proficiency in Operating Systems: Basic knowledge of operating systems like Windows, macOS, or Linux. This includes understanding how to start and shut down a computer, use the desktop interface, open and close applications, and manage files and folders. 2. Word Processing Skills: Ability to use word processing software like Microsoft Word or Google Docs. This includes creating, editing, formatting, and printing documents. 3. Spreadsheet Skills: Familiarity with spreadsheet software such as Microsoft Excel or Google Sheets. Skills might include creating and editing spreadsheets, using basic formulas, and understanding how to sort and filter data. 4. Email Communication: Ability to use email platforms like Outlook or Gmail. This includes composing, sending, and organizing emails, as well as understanding email etiquette. 5. Internet Navigation and Research: Competence in using a web browser, navigating websites, and using search engines effectively to find information. 6. Basic Understanding of Computer Hardware: Understanding the basic components of a computer, such as the monitor, keyboard, mouse, and printer. 7. Data Entry: Ability to enter data into various systems or databases accurately and efficiently. 8. Understanding of Basic Security Practices: Knowledge of basic cybersecurity practices such as creating strong passwords and identifying common online threats like phishing. 9. Use of Collaboration Tools: Familiarity with collaboration and communication tools like Slack, Microsoft Teams, or Zoom, especially relevant in remote or hybrid work environments. 10. Presentation Software: Basic skills in creating presentations using software like Microsoft PowerPoint or Google Slides. These skills are considered basic because they are often necessary for efficiently performing a wide range of tasks in the modern workplace, regardless of the specific job role.
- false-alarm 3y ago
  This example is about an intern, I think it's especially important to be polite in this context. Personally, I believe it a sign of immaturity to purposefully be rude in the workplace. Or that you don't have a life. Simply explain that the information they need should be in their onboarding email, and maybe mention to make sure to read it carefully. You can also offer any other advice that might help them be more effective. Then move on. Being rude as a tactic for behavior modification can have some unintended consequences - like resentment, or a toxic culture.
  - cbozeman 3y ago
    12 years of primary school and 4 years of college and she can't read? How much hand-holding do you need? College is supposed to be for high-performing, high-IQ individuals. I realize that is no longer the case, and I realize that has not been the case for some time, but guess what. You don't "skim" professional communications. You read them. And you read for comprehension and understanding. I forget where and when I saw it - it's been awhile back, and I think it was in Fortune magazine, or maybe Forbes, but one of the primary skills that both United States military officers and Fortune 500 company managers wished more prospective employees had is greater reading and writing ability. It's no fucking surprise though, given we've allowed communications to devolve into emojis instead of well-thought out sentences.
    - faeriechangling 3y ago
      Half the population goes to college nowadays, and the average person is just a smidge above average intelligence.
- foofie 3y ago
  > Yes, I will be rude to you if you are lazy and don't read. I'll be blunt: you're acting like an idiot. You gain nothing, you help no one, you create a shit environment, you do not contribute to prevent the same issue from happening again, you institutionalize unhelpfulness and petty behavior, and to top things off you insult and belittle colleagues who had the audacity to look your way for help. There is a reason why companies filter out candidates based on soft skills or lack thereof. It's because people who act like your example are a net loss to the company, and drive down the company's productivity by being hostile towards people who reach out to them for help. All companies are better off without antisocial idiots who unload their frustrations on other workers. Miserable people who try to compensate by making everyone around them even more miserable, and any company does well avoiding them and the cultural cancer they create and spread.
braza 3y ago
> Sure, effective communication could also come across rude in certain situations, but for most people being rude is not an active choice they make but something they feel entitled to. On top of that, the critique that I have with the article is that we should combine both, but I can relate that most of the rude people are classified as Mechanistic, using the parameters of the article. That's why I disagree with the premise that you should combine, in my experience the amount of Humanistic people should be at least 8:1 for each Mechanistic, with strict and top-down principles and policies that dictate what is acceptable or not. What I see in most of the working places is that, when you have a single default-rude person (mislabed as Mechanistic) the blast radius of people being shut down is way greater, and on the long run tanks everyone productivity.
PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
This says more about you than anyone else. The rudest people I know aren't even trying to be rude, their communication style just is what it is. Once you realize this you just let it slide off your back and suddenly you're able to get along with them just fine. A lot of people run around proclaiming how good they are at communicating but if they were really that good they'd be able to effectively communicate with others who are not like them.

by atoav 3y ago

stavros 3y ago

Depends on what you mean by rude. I just had a meeting that was trying to be polite and avoid blame, and completely failed to address the problem. Instead of "guys, there's this behavior X in the team that we don't want", it was "this is the behavior we want: X". I left the meeting feeling like "ok cool, no action to take then, we can all agree that we want X", instead of "shit, we've been doing Y instead of X, we really need to change that".

cbozeman 3y ago

I struggle with this one particularly because of the modern world. There's several layers to peel back on this onion, so let's take a look at them: > That colleague who insecurely asks a (somewhat naive) question about IT does not deserve to be treated rudely, just like you yourself would not like to be treated rudely when you had a (to them: naive) question to legal or HR. What did the colleague do before making their way to my desk or Teams / Slack / Chime / Whatever chat? Did they search this in their search engine of choice? Did they break out their manual - digital or print - and thumb / arrow key through it? Did they use the "Find" feature in their PDF program? If someone comes to me and says, "Hey, cbozeman, I have a question about <insert thing here>... I tried searching for the answer, but I didn't find anything really useful, and I couldn't find what I needed in the manual..." If you do that, you will have my undivided attention for as long as it takes to resolve your issue or answer your question. If, however, you did like one of our interns who emailed me saying, "I need access to \\OurServer\Training Committee. Big Boss says I have to watch training videos." "You aren't authorized to have access to that directory - it's even in the name - it's for the Training Committee only." "You're holding up my training, this is important, I have to do this!" "You can go to him and tell him that I told you, I'm not giving you access to that directory, you're not a member of the Training Committee and it's for their use only." Fast forward to later in the day and Big Boss swings by my office to let me know that Intern actually meant \\OurServer\Firm\Training Materials\Intern Training Videos. I asked him, "How do you know that?" "Because that's the UPN that I emailed to her in her onboarding email." "So she can't read?" "She can't read..." "Well, could be worse, at least she knows how to use File Explorer to even try to input the file path..." "Laughs." Yes, I will be rude to you if you are lazy and don't read. I will be rude to you if you do not care and do not want to learn. Every single person we hire - Hell, every single person every Fortune 500 company hires - must have "Basic" Computer Skills. It's right there in the job description for any job that sits in front of a computer. Basic Computer Skills. And just so I didn't lose my mind, I wrote an email to my old professor at my alma mater, and I asked him - after some pleasantries and asking how he was doing, "If you had to break down what entails "basic computer skills" in the year 2023, what would that look like?" Here is his response: "Hi cbozeman, I'm glad you're doing well in your life and career... yadda yadda blah blah... Here is PDF of a page of my newest introductory textbook that we use in IT and BIS courses regarding, "Basic Computer Skills". Hopefully this is instructive." It was. Here is his list of what constitutes, "Basic Computer Skills": When companies mention "Basic Computing Skills" in job descriptions or requirements, they typically refer to a set of foundational skills in using computers that are considered essential for most office or administrative roles. These skills usually include: 1. Proficiency in Operating Systems: Basic knowledge of operating systems like Windows, macOS, or Linux. This includes understanding how to start and shut down a computer, use the desktop interface, open and close applications, and manage files and folders. 2. Word Processing Skills: Ability to use word processing software like Microsoft Word or Google Docs. This includes creating, editing, formatting, and printing documents. 3. Spreadsheet Skills: Familiarity with spreadsheet software such as Microsoft Excel or Google Sheets. Skills might include creating and editing spreadsheets, using basic formulas, and understanding how to sort and filter data. 4. Email Communication: Ability to use email platforms like Outlook or Gmail. This includes composing, sending, and organizing emails, as well as understanding email etiquette. 5. Internet Navigation and Research: Competence in using a web browser, navigating websites, and using search engines effectively to find information. 6. Basic Understanding of Computer Hardware: Understanding the basic components of a computer, such as the monitor, keyboard, mouse, and printer. 7. Data Entry: Ability to enter data into various systems or databases accurately and efficiently. 8. Understanding of Basic Security Practices: Knowledge of basic cybersecurity practices such as creating strong passwords and identifying common online threats like phishing. 9. Use of Collaboration Tools: Familiarity with collaboration and communication tools like Slack, Microsoft Teams, or Zoom, especially relevant in remote or hybrid work environments. 10. Presentation Software: Basic skills in creating presentations using software like Microsoft PowerPoint or Google Slides. These skills are considered basic because they are often necessary for efficiently performing a wide range of tasks in the modern workplace, regardless of the specific job role.

false-alarm 3y ago
This example is about an intern, I think it's especially important to be polite in this context. Personally, I believe it a sign of immaturity to purposefully be rude in the workplace. Or that you don't have a life. Simply explain that the information they need should be in their onboarding email, and maybe mention to make sure to read it carefully. You can also offer any other advice that might help them be more effective. Then move on. Being rude as a tactic for behavior modification can have some unintended consequences - like resentment, or a toxic culture.
- cbozeman 3y ago
  12 years of primary school and 4 years of college and she can't read? How much hand-holding do you need? College is supposed to be for high-performing, high-IQ individuals. I realize that is no longer the case, and I realize that has not been the case for some time, but guess what. You don't "skim" professional communications. You read them. And you read for comprehension and understanding. I forget where and when I saw it - it's been awhile back, and I think it was in Fortune magazine, or maybe Forbes, but one of the primary skills that both United States military officers and Fortune 500 company managers wished more prospective employees had is greater reading and writing ability. It's no fucking surprise though, given we've allowed communications to devolve into emojis instead of well-thought out sentences.
  - faeriechangling 3y ago
    Half the population goes to college nowadays, and the average person is just a smidge above average intelligence.
foofie 3y ago
> Yes, I will be rude to you if you are lazy and don't read. I'll be blunt: you're acting like an idiot. You gain nothing, you help no one, you create a shit environment, you do not contribute to prevent the same issue from happening again, you institutionalize unhelpfulness and petty behavior, and to top things off you insult and belittle colleagues who had the audacity to look your way for help. There is a reason why companies filter out candidates based on soft skills or lack thereof. It's because people who act like your example are a net loss to the company, and drive down the company's productivity by being hostile towards people who reach out to them for help. All companies are better off without antisocial idiots who unload their frustrations on other workers. Miserable people who try to compensate by making everyone around them even more miserable, and any company does well avoiding them and the cultural cancer they create and spread.

braza 3y ago

> Sure, effective communication could also come across rude in certain situations, but for most people being rude is not an active choice they make but something they feel entitled to. On top of that, the critique that I have with the article is that we should combine both, but I can relate that most of the rude people are classified as Mechanistic, using the parameters of the article. That's why I disagree with the premise that you should combine, in my experience the amount of Humanistic people should be at least 8:1 for each Mechanistic, with strict and top-down principles and policies that dictate what is acceptable or not. What I see in most of the working places is that, when you have a single default-rude person (mislabed as Mechanistic) the blast radius of people being shut down is way greater, and on the long run tanks everyone productivity.

PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago

This says more about you than anyone else. The rudest people I know aren't even trying to be rude, their communication style just is what it is. Once you realize this you just let it slide off your back and suddenly you're able to get along with them just fine. A lot of people run around proclaiming how good they are at communicating but if they were really that good they'd be able to effectively communicate with others who are not like them.