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Is this evidence that micro plastics are a serious health concern? If breathing air after it has flowed over foam is bad, we are slowly exposing ourselves to th

Is this evidence that micro plastics are a serious health concern? If breathing air after it has flowed over foam is bad, we are slowly exposing ourselves to the same chemicals in hundreds of other ways.

tomtheelder 3y ago
I think there’s plenty of reason to be concerned about microplastics, but not necessarily. There are plenty of fine particulates that you could eat to no ill effect which are very harmful if inhaled.
throwup238 3y ago
Almost any particulate matter that you can breathe in is a concern but microplastics are mostly ingested.
akira2501 3y ago
This is not evidence of that. This machine delivers air at a positive pressure to force it through patients airways. The manufacturer used polyurethane foam instead of silicon foam. Moisture can make this foam break down. The device is likely to accumulate moisture due to it's purpose. There are multiple unique factors here and microplastics are not involved.
- NoPicklez 3y ago
  Sorry but what you've said doesn't invalidate or answer what they asked. The positive pressure used to force air through patients airways may have included broken down particulates of polyurethane foam? Of which may have been a major contributing factor to those health problems listed?
  - syndicatedjelly 3y ago
    I believe you are “technically” correct, but colloquially, “microplastic health effects” are believed to come from drinking water and food. Not industrial pollution, which is apparently what Philips’ machine is microdosing their users with.
    - throwaway290 3y ago
      Sounds like we just need to wait to accumulate a bit more of them?
      - therealdrag0 3y ago
        The dose makes the poison.
        throwaway290 3y ago
        Not really. For many things there is no "safe" level, eg. airborne PM2.5 pollution or lead. What you say is a bit of a common sense rule of thumb usually used for stuff we digest and poop out. So that may rule out microplastics, which was shown to cross into tissue (including lungs) which means it would accumulate. And definitely nanoplastic, as those enter even individual cells and screw up their mechanics. I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years we would consider no safe level of micro/nanoplastic exposure. Maybe we would already if not for the interests of manufacturers and oil industry.
        throwaway290 3y ago
        I guess maybe you were agreeing with me but I responded as if you weren't
    - NoPicklez 3y ago
      Colloquially, but we’re not talking colloquially, we’re talking about the Phillips machine and the fact that people’s lungs were being forced air of which included plastics. I wasn't providing an answer I was presenting a question like what the other commenter was, which is could those health effects have come from microplastics emitted from the foam. I’ve just read the FDA response which says: The potential risks of particulate exposure if inhaling or swallowing pieces of PE-PUR foam include: Irritation to the skin, eyes, nose, and respiratory tract (airway), Inflammatory response, Headache, Asthma, Toxic or cancer-causing effects to organs, such as kidneys and liver. So it looks like it is the case
- NoPicklez 3y ago
  The FDA’s response to the recall says otherwise The potential risks of particulate exposure if inhaling or swallowing pieces of PE-PUR foam include: Irritation to the skin, eyes, nose, and respiratory tract (airway), Inflammatory response, Headache, Asthma, Toxic or cancer-causing effects to organs, such as kidneys and liver.
  - nsagent 3y ago
    The problem is just about any foreign particulates at a high enough concentration will cause adverse effects when inhaled [1]. If the machine had a large residue of metal dust from manufacturing, or a grinding in the motor which made it into the airstream, there are severe consequences [2]. A similar issue could if there was some sort of wood dust [3] that made it into the airstream (e.g if they had a wood trim for aesthetics, and it was shaved down by the motor and made it into the air stream). If instead just the dampening of the wood caused mold spores to grow that made it into the air stream [4], that could also cause major issues. So yes, in this case it's foam, but most foreign particulates are going to be a problem. [1]: https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/lungs_dust.html#section-5-hdr https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/lungs_dust.html#se... [2]: https://lunginstitute.com/can-breathing-metal-dust-hurt-you/ https://lunginstitute.com/can-breathing-metal-dust-hurt-you/ [3]: https://www.osha.gov/wood-dust https://www.osha.gov/wood-dust [4]: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/aspergillosis/symptoms-causes/syc-20369619 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/aspergillosis...
lm28469 3y ago
> Is this evidence that micro plastics are a serious health concern? Don't we know that for a while already ? The endocrine disrupting effect alone is a major concern. I feel like we're back at the "is lead in gas really _that_ bad?"

tomtheelder 3y ago

I think there’s plenty of reason to be concerned about microplastics, but not necessarily. There are plenty of fine particulates that you could eat to no ill effect which are very harmful if inhaled.

throwup238 3y ago

Almost any particulate matter that you can breathe in is a concern but microplastics are mostly ingested.

akira2501 3y ago

This is not evidence of that. This machine delivers air at a positive pressure to force it through patients airways. The manufacturer used polyurethane foam instead of silicon foam. Moisture can make this foam break down. The device is likely to accumulate moisture due to it's purpose. There are multiple unique factors here and microplastics are not involved.

NoPicklez 3y ago
Sorry but what you've said doesn't invalidate or answer what they asked. The positive pressure used to force air through patients airways may have included broken down particulates of polyurethane foam? Of which may have been a major contributing factor to those health problems listed?
- syndicatedjelly 3y ago
  I believe you are “technically” correct, but colloquially, “microplastic health effects” are believed to come from drinking water and food. Not industrial pollution, which is apparently what Philips’ machine is microdosing their users with.
  - throwaway290 3y ago
    Sounds like we just need to wait to accumulate a bit more of them?
    - therealdrag0 3y ago
      The dose makes the poison.
      - throwaway290 3y ago
        Not really. For many things there is no "safe" level, eg. airborne PM2.5 pollution or lead. What you say is a bit of a common sense rule of thumb usually used for stuff we digest and poop out. So that may rule out microplastics, which was shown to cross into tissue (including lungs) which means it would accumulate. And definitely nanoplastic, as those enter even individual cells and screw up their mechanics. I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years we would consider no safe level of micro/nanoplastic exposure. Maybe we would already if not for the interests of manufacturers and oil industry.
      - throwaway290 3y ago
        I guess maybe you were agreeing with me but I responded as if you weren't
  - NoPicklez 3y ago
    Colloquially, but we’re not talking colloquially, we’re talking about the Phillips machine and the fact that people’s lungs were being forced air of which included plastics. I wasn't providing an answer I was presenting a question like what the other commenter was, which is could those health effects have come from microplastics emitted from the foam. I’ve just read the FDA response which says: The potential risks of particulate exposure if inhaling or swallowing pieces of PE-PUR foam include: Irritation to the skin, eyes, nose, and respiratory tract (airway), Inflammatory response, Headache, Asthma, Toxic or cancer-causing effects to organs, such as kidneys and liver. So it looks like it is the case
NoPicklez 3y ago
The FDA’s response to the recall says otherwise The potential risks of particulate exposure if inhaling or swallowing pieces of PE-PUR foam include: Irritation to the skin, eyes, nose, and respiratory tract (airway), Inflammatory response, Headache, Asthma, Toxic or cancer-causing effects to organs, such as kidneys and liver.
- nsagent 3y ago
  The problem is just about any foreign particulates at a high enough concentration will cause adverse effects when inhaled [1]. If the machine had a large residue of metal dust from manufacturing, or a grinding in the motor which made it into the airstream, there are severe consequences [2]. A similar issue could if there was some sort of wood dust [3] that made it into the airstream (e.g if they had a wood trim for aesthetics, and it was shaved down by the motor and made it into the air stream). If instead just the dampening of the wood caused mold spores to grow that made it into the air stream [4], that could also cause major issues. So yes, in this case it's foam, but most foreign particulates are going to be a problem. [1]: https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/lungs_dust.html#section-5-hdr https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/lungs_dust.html#se... [2]: https://lunginstitute.com/can-breathing-metal-dust-hurt-you/ https://lunginstitute.com/can-breathing-metal-dust-hurt-you/ [3]: https://www.osha.gov/wood-dust https://www.osha.gov/wood-dust [4]: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/aspergillosis/symptoms-causes/syc-20369619 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/aspergillosis...

lm28469 3y ago

> Is this evidence that micro plastics are a serious health concern? Don't we know that for a while already ? The endocrine disrupting effect alone is a major concern. I feel like we're back at the "is lead in gas really _that_ bad?"