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> ... and the absolute minimum robustness of other mechanisms on a plane as a result of weight-saving ... Being on a plane is the single safest place you could

> ... and the absolute minimum robustness of other mechanisms on a plane as a result of weight-saving ... Being on a plane is the single safest place you could possible be at any time as a human.

thewakalix 3y ago
Do you have a source for that?
- arcticbull 3y ago
  Global passenger volume in 2023 was about 8.6 billion, anticipated to be 9.4 billion in 2024. Total, global death count due to accident fatalities is measured in the hundreds. Usually 100-500 per year. Global accidents per million departures usually hovers around 2, and that's not fatal accidents, which are about an order of magnitude less frequent. Here's the 2023 ICAO safety report. [1] [1] https://www.icao.int/safety/Documents/ICAO_SR_2023_20230823.pdf https://www.icao.int/safety/Documents/ICAO_SR_2023_20230823....
  - thfuran 3y ago
    But nobody has ever died on my couch. There have been a few nonfatal accidents, but they mostly involved salsa going where it wasn't meant to and led to no injuries.
    - arcticbull 3y ago
      There were actually significantly more furniture tip-over injuries than airplane injuries since 2020. [1] So maybe you should add a yet ;) [1] https://www.npr.org/2022/02/03/1077996126/furniture-tip-overs-injuries-deaths-cpsc https://www.npr.org/2022/02/03/1077996126/furniture-tip-over...
      - thfuran 3y ago
        That's pretty much all things like bookshelves, dressers, and TVs. Couches are not high on the list of furniture with a propensity for falling on children who use them incorrectly.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
saagarjha 3y ago
Surely there are safer places, such as those that aren’t hours away from medical care…
- justworkout 3y ago
  You're correct. The other poster is thinking being one of the safest forms of transportation in terms of disastrous accidents == safest state of existence, which is a big misunderstanding.
- arcticbull 3y ago
  It's a good thought exercise, but I suspect that's not the case. The plane will land and deposit you somewhere with nearby medical care, and except over the pacific or poles, you're not too far from an airport. There's also staff on hand that have more experience caring for most basic issues that might arise than the people around you ordinarily. There's also very good odds that a doctor is onboard, and of course, defibrillators will be onboard and at least in the US staff are trained to use them. Further the places you'd be that aren't a plane have plenty of their own safety risks, that people aren't checking for constantly as a matter of course. Whereas on a plane, there's very little that can hurt you, and your job is to, well, remain seated. A fairly safe activity, in moderation. Combined with the fact your risk of dying due to a fatal accident is about 500 in 9.4 billion, I stand by my rough assessment.
  - worthless-trash 3y ago
    Does your calculations account for the base-risk value of what happens to people that die on planes, not necessarily death by planes. Plane flight is an additional risk, it doesn't mitigate existing risks in place.
    - arcticbull 3y ago
      I’ll be the first to admit it wasn’t properly calculated. I do think there’s some benefit to personal safety due to the selection bias and process for the people around you.
boomboomsubban 3y ago
It might show up that way, but it's almost certainly not. If all I do is sit in a chair, getting up to use the restroom occasionally, my home is probably safer than a plane. However the data will presumably show a much higher accident rate at home, because I also do things like cook, clean, and move goods. Related, I bet cleaning and moving things have a fairly high accident rate on airplanes, but the accidents happen on the ground to employees so won't show up in the data.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- arcticbull 3y ago
  > However the data will presumably show a much higher accident rate at home, because I also do things like cook, clean, and move goods. Part of my premise is that a place you're forbidden from doing dangerous things is safe. I'm sure it's more dangerous to operate a chop saw on a plane, but you're not allowed to do that either. That's part of what makes it safe to be there ;) You're not allowed to do anything dangerous up there and neither is anyone around you. You're also screened on the way in for dangerous goods, and your ID is verified, and that of your fellow passengers. > Related, I bet cleaning and moving things have a fairly high accident rate on airplanes, but the accidents happen on the ground to employees so won't show up in the data. Sure, I meant as a passenger, not as a ramper or cleaner.

> ... and the absolute minimum robustness of other mechanisms on a plane as a result of weight-saving ... Being on a plane is the single safest place you could possible be at any time as a human.

thewakalix 3y ago

Do you have a source for that?

arcticbull 3y ago
Global passenger volume in 2023 was about 8.6 billion, anticipated to be 9.4 billion in 2024. Total, global death count due to accident fatalities is measured in the hundreds. Usually 100-500 per year. Global accidents per million departures usually hovers around 2, and that's not fatal accidents, which are about an order of magnitude less frequent. Here's the 2023 ICAO safety report. [1] [1] https://www.icao.int/safety/Documents/ICAO_SR_2023_20230823.pdf https://www.icao.int/safety/Documents/ICAO_SR_2023_20230823....
- thfuran 3y ago
  But nobody has ever died on my couch. There have been a few nonfatal accidents, but they mostly involved salsa going where it wasn't meant to and led to no injuries.
  - arcticbull 3y ago
    There were actually significantly more furniture tip-over injuries than airplane injuries since 2020. [1] So maybe you should add a yet ;) [1] https://www.npr.org/2022/02/03/1077996126/furniture-tip-overs-injuries-deaths-cpsc https://www.npr.org/2022/02/03/1077996126/furniture-tip-over...
    - thfuran 3y ago
      That's pretty much all things like bookshelves, dressers, and TVs. Couches are not high on the list of furniture with a propensity for falling on children who use them incorrectly.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]

saagarjha 3y ago

Surely there are safer places, such as those that aren’t hours away from medical care…

justworkout 3y ago
You're correct. The other poster is thinking being one of the safest forms of transportation in terms of disastrous accidents == safest state of existence, which is a big misunderstanding.
arcticbull 3y ago
It's a good thought exercise, but I suspect that's not the case. The plane will land and deposit you somewhere with nearby medical care, and except over the pacific or poles, you're not too far from an airport. There's also staff on hand that have more experience caring for most basic issues that might arise than the people around you ordinarily. There's also very good odds that a doctor is onboard, and of course, defibrillators will be onboard and at least in the US staff are trained to use them. Further the places you'd be that aren't a plane have plenty of their own safety risks, that people aren't checking for constantly as a matter of course. Whereas on a plane, there's very little that can hurt you, and your job is to, well, remain seated. A fairly safe activity, in moderation. Combined with the fact your risk of dying due to a fatal accident is about 500 in 9.4 billion, I stand by my rough assessment.
- worthless-trash 3y ago
  Does your calculations account for the base-risk value of what happens to people that die on planes, not necessarily death by planes. Plane flight is an additional risk, it doesn't mitigate existing risks in place.
  - arcticbull 3y ago
    I’ll be the first to admit it wasn’t properly calculated. I do think there’s some benefit to personal safety due to the selection bias and process for the people around you.

boomboomsubban 3y ago

It might show up that way, but it's almost certainly not. If all I do is sit in a chair, getting up to use the restroom occasionally, my home is probably safer than a plane. However the data will presumably show a much higher accident rate at home, because I also do things like cook, clean, and move goods. Related, I bet cleaning and moving things have a fairly high accident rate on airplanes, but the accidents happen on the ground to employees so won't show up in the data.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
arcticbull 3y ago
> However the data will presumably show a much higher accident rate at home, because I also do things like cook, clean, and move goods. Part of my premise is that a place you're forbidden from doing dangerous things is safe. I'm sure it's more dangerous to operate a chop saw on a plane, but you're not allowed to do that either. That's part of what makes it safe to be there ;) You're not allowed to do anything dangerous up there and neither is anyone around you. You're also screened on the way in for dangerous goods, and your ID is verified, and that of your fellow passengers. > Related, I bet cleaning and moving things have a fairly high accident rate on airplanes, but the accidents happen on the ground to employees so won't show up in the data. Sure, I meant as a passenger, not as a ramper or cleaner.