6 ms·
Also, "hundreds of kilograms" is not a lot if you consider how much the rest of the plane weighs --- a 737 MAX is ~100k lbs empty, so this is less than 1% of it
by userbinator 3y ago
Also, "hundreds of kilograms" is not a lot if you consider how much the rest of the plane weighs --- a 737 MAX is ~100k lbs empty, so this is less than 1% of its empty weight, and a 747 is between 300-500k lbs empty.
Then again, given how airlines would cram in even 1 more passenger if they could, and the absolute minimum robustness of other mechanisms on a plane as a result of weight-saving, I think they will still chase after <1% gains.
- fbdab103 3y agoI would think that modern planes are more constrained by volume than weight.
- dahfizz 3y agoNot "constrained" really, but every pound you put up in the air costs fuel. Making the plane lighter immediately saves money.
- arcticbull 3y ago> ... and the absolute minimum robustness of other mechanisms on a plane as a result of weight-saving ... Being on a plane is the single safest place you could possible be at any time as a human.
- thewakalix 3y agoDo you have a source for that?
- arcticbull 3y agoGlobal passenger volume in 2023 was about 8.6 billion, anticipated to be 9.4 billion in 2024. Total, global death count due to accident fatalities is measured in the hundreds. Usually 100-500 per year. Global accidents per million departures usually hovers around 2, and that's not fatal accidents, which are about an order of magnitude less frequent. Here's the 2023 ICAO safety report. [1] [1] https://www.icao.int/safety/Documents/ICAO_SR_2023_20230823.pdf https://www.icao.int/safety/Documents/ICAO_SR_2023_20230823....
- thfuran 3y agoBut nobody has ever died on my couch. There have been a few nonfatal accidents, but they mostly involved salsa going where it wasn't meant to and led to no injuries.
- arcticbull 3y agoThere were actually significantly more furniture tip-over injuries than airplane injuries since 2020. [1] So maybe you should add a yet ;) [1] https://www.npr.org/2022/02/03/1077996126/furniture-tip-overs-injuries-deaths-cpsc https://www.npr.org/2022/02/03/1077996126/furniture-tip-over...
- thfuran 3y agoThat's pretty much all things like bookshelves, dressers, and TVs. Couches are not high on the list of furniture with a propensity for falling on children who use them incorrectly.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- saagarjha 3y agoSurely there are safer places, such as those that aren’t hours away from medical care…
- justworkout 3y agoYou're correct. The other poster is thinking being one of the safest forms of transportation in terms of disastrous accidents == safest state of existence, which is a big misunderstanding.
- arcticbull 3y agoIt's a good thought exercise, but I suspect that's not the case. The plane will land and deposit you somewhere with nearby medical care, and except over the pacific or poles, you're not too far from an airport. There's also staff on hand that have more experience caring for most basic issues that might arise than the people around you ordinarily. There's also very good odds that a doctor is onboard, and of course, defibrillators will be onboard and at least in the US staff are trained to use them. Further the places you'd be that aren't a plane have plenty of their own safety risks, that people aren't checking for constantly as a matter of course. Whereas on a plane, there's very little that can hurt you, and your job is to, well, remain seated. A fairly safe activity, in moderation. Combined with the fact your risk of dying due to a fatal accident is about 500 in 9.4 billion, I stand by my rough assessment.
- worthless-trash 3y agoDoes your calculations account for the base-risk value of what happens to people that die on planes, not necessarily death by planes. Plane flight is an additional risk, it doesn't mitigate existing risks in place.
- arcticbull 3y agoI’ll be the first to admit it wasn’t properly calculated. I do think there’s some benefit to personal safety due to the selection bias and process for the people around you.
- boomboomsubban 3y agoIt might show up that way, but it's almost certainly not. If all I do is sit in a chair, getting up to use the restroom occasionally, my home is probably safer than a plane. However the data will presumably show a much higher accident rate at home, because I also do things like cook, clean, and move goods. Related, I bet cleaning and moving things have a fairly high accident rate on airplanes, but the accidents happen on the ground to employees so won't show up in the data.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- arcticbull 3y ago> However the data will presumably show a much higher accident rate at home, because I also do things like cook, clean, and move goods. Part of my premise is that a place you're forbidden from doing dangerous things is safe. I'm sure it's more dangerous to operate a chop saw on a plane, but you're not allowed to do that either. That's part of what makes it safe to be there ;) You're not allowed to do anything dangerous up there and neither is anyone around you. You're also screened on the way in for dangerous goods, and your ID is verified, and that of your fellow passengers. > Related, I bet cleaning and moving things have a fairly high accident rate on airplanes, but the accidents happen on the ground to employees so won't show up in the data. Sure, I meant as a passenger, not as a ramper or cleaner.
- Cacti 3y agoThe average profit of a large commercial passenger flight in the US is about one ticket.
- devmor 3y agoIf this were true, the majority of flights would be a loss.
- iraqmtpizza 3y agoIf that were true, so what? That would be by my calculations 611,793,750 dollars a year for American Airlines Group (6700 flights/day, 250 dollars a ticket). While that is significantly less than their operating income, it's significantly more than their net income.
- csomar 3y agoWhy would that be the case? A flight can profitable even if it is half empty. The profit can still be one ticket.
- devmor 3y agoThe average flight is not half empty. If a half empty flight is profitable, then the profit of the average flight could not possibly be one ticket.
- Cacti 3y agoI think you are thinking about this way too much. The mean profit per flight is about $500. This number tells you nothing about whether a particular half empty flight is profitable or not. Literally every flight except one could be empty and you could still end up at a mean value of $500 if that one remaining flight is profitable enough.
- thfuran 3y ago>Also, "hundreds of kilograms" is not a lot if you consider how much the rest of the plane weighs It's a lot more than you'd think: https://www.kiwi.com/stories/united-prints-lighter-magazine-saves-170000-gallons-fuel/ https://www.kiwi.com/stories/united-prints-lighter-magazine-... Reports annual savings of about $300k by shaving a few grams off each of the pamphlets they stick in the seats.
- rahimnathwani 3y agoThat's about 0.0006% of United's revenue.
- thfuran 3y agoOr more like 0.006% of their profit. And this paint thing looks to be about 100x more weight difference, so perhaps 0.6% of their profit.
- ChatGTP 3y agommmm profit
- chrisandchris 3y agoThink about it as a small, seeminlgy useless change and giving your company 0.0006% more revenue. Now every employee applies the same mindset and the company starts to fly (pun intended). Or otherwise, you just not care about everything lose money everywhere.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- rabbits_2002 3y agoI am surprised a 737 is only 100k lbs, I would have assumed like 250k. A blue whale weighs significantly more.
- hammock 3y agoCan blue whales fly?
- userbinator 3y agoCan 737s swim? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transair_Flight_810 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transair_Flight_810 (Sorry, could not resist...)
- hammock 3y agoWeight doesn't tend to be a limiting factor for swimmers. Hence blue whales. It does tend to be a limiting factor for fliers (hence hollow bones, etc). The heaviest flying creature on Earth does not exceed about 40 pounds. Including extinct animals, the heaviest flier was not more than 550 pounds. A blue whale can weigh almost 1,000 times that.
- Tagbert 3y agoI assume that is a result of the need for the 737 to fly and for it to be as light as possible. The whale has no such constraint.
- d1sxeyes 3y agoThat's not correct. The need for buoyancy is a very similar constraint, just with a different threshold. If a blue whale is too heavy (or rather more accurately, too dense), then it will become very challenging for the whale to surface to breathe. But I'm not sure why anyone would want to paint one?
- tpurves 3y agoYou jest (and you jest well)., And yet there is at least one rather-famously documented case of a whale grappling with that very same constraint: "Another thing that got forgotten was the fact that against all probability a sperm whale had suddenly been called into existence several miles above the surface of an alien planet. And since this is not a naturally tenable position for a whale, this poor innocent creature had very little time to come to terms with its identity as a whale before it then had to come to terms with not being a whale any more." -DA