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How about not locking up children for life? How about not making snap judgements based on a short article?

by arp242 3y ago

gamblor956 3y ago
There are plenty of other, longer articles about him discussing how he's swatted a dozens of mosques, temples, synagogues, and others. He's also not a child. He's 17 years old, and fully capable of understanding the risk of harm he exposed hundreds of people to.
- arp242 3y ago
  Yes, I read that the other day. I never claimed he is innocent, but "life" is a long time. I don't know the kid or any details, but are you really sure he's still going to be a danger in 10 years? Or 20 years? > He's also not a child. He's 17 years old, and fully capable of understanding the risk of harm he exposed hundreds of people to. It's not. Brains keep developing until the age of 25 or so. Age of consent and age of $lots_of_things is 18 (arguably too young, IMHO). Trailing people as adults when they're considered too young to vote, buy alcohol, etc. is quite frankly ridiculous.
  - amatecha 3y ago
    It's not like he just did this once or twice. He has apparently engaged in this activity some hundreds of times. Purposely putting people's lives at risk, probably specifically hoping to cause as much harm as possible. He literally offered his "swatting" services on Telegram. This isn't like some one-off bad decision, this was a persistent extremely malicious intent and could have resulted in substantial loss of life. Yeah, I don't think he should be jailed for life, but this is a person who should not be walking free in society until he has proven substantial fundamental change.
    - arp242 3y ago
      > I don't think he should be jailed for life, but this is a person who should not be walking free in society until he has proven substantial fundamental change. Fully agree with that; obviously this is all very serious. But that is a fundamentally different position than "he should be locked up for life!"
      - amatecha 3y ago
        Yeah for real, a life sentence is a pretty over-the-top suggestion.
  - dudul 3y ago
    Sociopaths cannot be cured. SWATing is literally equivalent to shooting at someone with the intention to kill. Until there is serious consequences for people who do it, it won't stop.
    - arp242 3y ago
      I never said there shouldn't be serious consequences. Ya'll treating this as some sort of binary choice between "lock a teenager up for life" vs. "give him a slap on the wrist". It's far from certain he actually is a sociopath. Half the teenagers out there are semi-sociopaths on account of being teenagers. And it's really not the same as shooting at someone, much less "with the intent to kill". SWATting is SWATting, and comparing it to other things is silly because other things are, well, other things.
      - Tagbert 3y ago
        Neither is being a child or an adult a binary. Yes, the law generally makes a sharpe distinction based on age, but it does sometime recognize that someone who is close to the age of adulthood and who has been charged with particularly high impact and violent crime can be treated as an adult. Whether an adult should or should not be imprisoned for life is a different question, but I cannot see treating this person a “child” appropriate.
      - dudul 3y ago
        What an absurd position. Comparing things helps calibrate the response. You compare situations to others you've experienced in the past to come up with an appropriate reaction. What's the intent of SWATing? It is attempted murder. And no, half the teenagers are not sociopaths. Sociopathy is a well defined condition that cannot be cured. You're clearly neither a doctor nor a lawyer and have chosen a weird hill to die on, but carry on.
  - ecf 3y ago
    > but are you really sure he's still going to be a danger in 10 years? Or 20 years? Nobody knows, but the person lost the chance for society to give them the benefit of the doubt. They know it’s wrong. They did it HUNDREDS OF TIMES.
adastra22 3y ago
I’m a victim of a SWATting. You cannot imagine the hell you get put through until it happens to you. This kid deserves life.
- deleted 3y ago
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- arp242 3y ago
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  - zht 3y ago
    What? People commit crimes that have negative impact on people, possibly causing death They go to prison for committing these crimes It’s not like the guy accidentally ran over a dog He swatted people for money
    - arp242 3y ago
      I never said he shouldn't go to prison. I also never said this wasn't serious.
  - adastra22 3y ago
    Vengeance? Where does vengeance enter into this? This kid has demonstrated a fundamental incapacity to feel empathy and remorse for the lives he ruined and the people he purposefully and repeated placed in lethal situations. Such a psychopath is a menace to society and needs to be locked up.
    - arp242 3y ago
      You can't make that assertion based on this article because it doesn't have enough information. People – especially children and teenagers – can commit crimes, even terrible crimes, and still have the capacity to feel empathy. It's these kind of wild views that see all criminals as irredeemable Hannibal Lector type monsters that barely qualify as human that led to the militarisation of the police in the first place. Well, one of the reasons anyway.

How about not locking up children for life? How about not making snap judgements based on a short article?

by arp242 3y ago

How about not locking up children for life? How about not making snap judgements based on a short article?

There are plenty of other, longer articles about him discussing how he's swatted a dozens of mosques, temples, synagogues, and others. He's also not a child. He's 17 years old, and fully capable of understanding the risk of harm he exposed hundreds of people to.

arp242 3y ago
Yes, I read that the other day. I never claimed he is innocent, but "life" is a long time. I don't know the kid or any details, but are you really sure he's still going to be a danger in 10 years? Or 20 years? > He's also not a child. He's 17 years old, and fully capable of understanding the risk of harm he exposed hundreds of people to. It's not. Brains keep developing until the age of 25 or so. Age of consent and age of $lots_of_things is 18 (arguably too young, IMHO). Trailing people as adults when they're considered too young to vote, buy alcohol, etc. is quite frankly ridiculous.
- amatecha 3y ago
  It's not like he just did this once or twice. He has apparently engaged in this activity some hundreds of times. Purposely putting people's lives at risk, probably specifically hoping to cause as much harm as possible. He literally offered his "swatting" services on Telegram. This isn't like some one-off bad decision, this was a persistent extremely malicious intent and could have resulted in substantial loss of life. Yeah, I don't think he should be jailed for life, but this is a person who should not be walking free in society until he has proven substantial fundamental change.
  - arp242 3y ago
    > I don't think he should be jailed for life, but this is a person who should not be walking free in society until he has proven substantial fundamental change. Fully agree with that; obviously this is all very serious. But that is a fundamentally different position than "he should be locked up for life!"
    - amatecha 3y ago
      Yeah for real, a life sentence is a pretty over-the-top suggestion.
- dudul 3y ago
  Sociopaths cannot be cured. SWATing is literally equivalent to shooting at someone with the intention to kill. Until there is serious consequences for people who do it, it won't stop.
  - arp242 3y ago
    I never said there shouldn't be serious consequences. Ya'll treating this as some sort of binary choice between "lock a teenager up for life" vs. "give him a slap on the wrist". It's far from certain he actually is a sociopath. Half the teenagers out there are semi-sociopaths on account of being teenagers. And it's really not the same as shooting at someone, much less "with the intent to kill". SWATting is SWATting, and comparing it to other things is silly because other things are, well, other things.
    - Tagbert 3y ago
      Neither is being a child or an adult a binary. Yes, the law generally makes a sharpe distinction based on age, but it does sometime recognize that someone who is close to the age of adulthood and who has been charged with particularly high impact and violent crime can be treated as an adult. Whether an adult should or should not be imprisoned for life is a different question, but I cannot see treating this person a “child” appropriate.
    - dudul 3y ago
      What an absurd position. Comparing things helps calibrate the response. You compare situations to others you've experienced in the past to come up with an appropriate reaction. What's the intent of SWATing? It is attempted murder. And no, half the teenagers are not sociopaths. Sociopathy is a well defined condition that cannot be cured. You're clearly neither a doctor nor a lawyer and have chosen a weird hill to die on, but carry on.
- ecf 3y ago
  > but are you really sure he's still going to be a danger in 10 years? Or 20 years? Nobody knows, but the person lost the chance for society to give them the benefit of the doubt. They know it’s wrong. They did it HUNDREDS OF TIMES.

adastra22 3y ago

I’m a victim of a SWATting. You cannot imagine the hell you get put through until it happens to you. This kid deserves life.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
arp242 3y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- zht 3y ago
  What? People commit crimes that have negative impact on people, possibly causing death They go to prison for committing these crimes It’s not like the guy accidentally ran over a dog He swatted people for money
  - arp242 3y ago
    I never said he shouldn't go to prison. I also never said this wasn't serious.
- adastra22 3y ago
  Vengeance? Where does vengeance enter into this? This kid has demonstrated a fundamental incapacity to feel empathy and remorse for the lives he ruined and the people he purposefully and repeated placed in lethal situations. Such a psychopath is a menace to society and needs to be locked up.
  - arp242 3y ago
    You can't make that assertion based on this article because it doesn't have enough information. People – especially children and teenagers – can commit crimes, even terrible crimes, and still have the capacity to feel empathy. It's these kind of wild views that see all criminals as irredeemable Hannibal Lector type monsters that barely qualify as human that led to the militarisation of the police in the first place. Well, one of the reasons anyway.