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> And I say that the object-relational mismatch does have more to do with OOP than it does with functional programming. Understood. You have asserted that many

> And I say that the object-relational mismatch does have more to do with OOP than it does with functional programming. Understood. You have asserted that many times now. But what you are trying to say has not been made clear. Let's break this down. As defined by context, OOP means: messaging, local retention and protection and hiding of state-process, and extreme late-binding of all things. Indeed, there exist other OOP definitions, but that is the one that was defined here. I think we can rule out "local retention and protection and hiding of state-process" from the discussion. Hiding means that even if there is some kind of relational database access happening behind the curtain, we cannot know about it. If we don't know about it, we cannot talk about it. That leaves messaging and extreme late-binding. It is not clear to me what it is about messaging and/or extreme late-binding that is at odds with relational databases. This is where I seek clarification. While you pointed to the work of Neward and Atwood, all I could find from them was discussion about the pitfalls of trying to model relational databases as a particular object model. They say nothing about messaging or extreme late-binding. Unfortunately, they were of no help here.

dventimihasura 3y ago
> Let's break this down. As defined by context, OOP means: messaging, local retention and protection and hiding of state-process, and extreme late-binding of all things. Indeed, there exist other OOP definitions, but that is the one that was defined here. Point to the place on the doll where the article author defines OOP.
- randomdata 3y ago
  This has been covered several times. Seemingly in a way that I failed to make it clear, granted, but without any feedback in what you did take from it to determine where the need for further clarity remains, it is difficult to try to correct. Needless to say, I recognize that you are here in bad faith so I was never expecting you to work towards a mutual understanding, but I throw this out there anyway as the response to it will no doubt be hilarious. Given that you don't know how to clarify your original message, perhaps we can still salvage something here? Let's assume that OOP is by another definition. Your choice. Define it however you please. Then explain how relational databases fit into that definition.
  - dventimihasura 3y ago
    > This has been covered several times No, this has been covered exactly once. I asked 4 hours ago in this sub-thread this question, but you didn't answer it. I also asked again 3 hours ago in this sub-thread. I also asked a related question in another sub-thread 3 hours ago. You answered it one time 2 hours ago with "First thing you read. That's where definitions go." in the other sub-thread, then 1 hour ago in this sub-thread to its second query you said This has been covered several times which it absolutely not has been. THIS, dear readers, is what we call "bad faith." > Given that you don't know how to clarify your original message, perhaps we can still salvage something here? Let's assume that OOP is by another definition. Your choice. Define it however you please. Then explain how relational databases fit into that definition. Absolutely not. You have acted in bad faith, have been argumentative, have been snide, have been condescending, and have made things personal throughout these debates. I will absolutely not be corresponding with you in HN comments on this topic or on any other any longer. I would do so "in-person" in a Zoom call if you had the stones for it, but I doubt you do.
    - randomdata 3y ago
      > No, this has been covered exactly once. I count three times in this thread (plus apparently again in another thread, although that has no relevance to this one). I respect that I did not convey it in an understandable way. Communication is hard. But it is not clear to me what was interpreted instead, in order to allow me to turn the ship in the right direction. > I will absolutely not be corresponding with you in HN comments on this topic or on any other any longer. Because we wouldn't be able to figure that if you just stopped corresponding...? > I would do so "in-person" in a Zoom call Sure, I'll listen in if you want to expand upon how relational databases pertain to your definition of OOP. If you seek a debate, as suggested above, no thanks. High school debate club is best left for high school students. I did not engage in debate with you here for good reason, and I will not engage in debate elsewhere either.

dventimihasura 3y ago

> Let's break this down. As defined by context, OOP means: messaging, local retention and protection and hiding of state-process, and extreme late-binding of all things. Indeed, there exist other OOP definitions, but that is the one that was defined here. Point to the place on the doll where the article author defines OOP.

randomdata 3y ago
This has been covered several times. Seemingly in a way that I failed to make it clear, granted, but without any feedback in what you did take from it to determine where the need for further clarity remains, it is difficult to try to correct. Needless to say, I recognize that you are here in bad faith so I was never expecting you to work towards a mutual understanding, but I throw this out there anyway as the response to it will no doubt be hilarious. Given that you don't know how to clarify your original message, perhaps we can still salvage something here? Let's assume that OOP is by another definition. Your choice. Define it however you please. Then explain how relational databases fit into that definition.
- dventimihasura 3y ago
  > This has been covered several times No, this has been covered exactly once. I asked 4 hours ago in this sub-thread this question, but you didn't answer it. I also asked again 3 hours ago in this sub-thread. I also asked a related question in another sub-thread 3 hours ago. You answered it one time 2 hours ago with "First thing you read. That's where definitions go." in the other sub-thread, then 1 hour ago in this sub-thread to its second query you said This has been covered several times which it absolutely not has been. THIS, dear readers, is what we call "bad faith." > Given that you don't know how to clarify your original message, perhaps we can still salvage something here? Let's assume that OOP is by another definition. Your choice. Define it however you please. Then explain how relational databases fit into that definition. Absolutely not. You have acted in bad faith, have been argumentative, have been snide, have been condescending, and have made things personal throughout these debates. I will absolutely not be corresponding with you in HN comments on this topic or on any other any longer. I would do so "in-person" in a Zoom call if you had the stones for it, but I doubt you do.
  - randomdata 3y ago
    > No, this has been covered exactly once. I count three times in this thread (plus apparently again in another thread, although that has no relevance to this one). I respect that I did not convey it in an understandable way. Communication is hard. But it is not clear to me what was interpreted instead, in order to allow me to turn the ship in the right direction. > I will absolutely not be corresponding with you in HN comments on this topic or on any other any longer. Because we wouldn't be able to figure that if you just stopped corresponding...? > I would do so "in-person" in a Zoom call Sure, I'll listen in if you want to expand upon how relational databases pertain to your definition of OOP. If you seek a debate, as suggested above, no thanks. High school debate club is best left for high school students. I did not engage in debate with you here for good reason, and I will not engage in debate elsewhere either.