4 ms·

It is cheaper to make laws like this than to actually help poor people by giving them cash or services, which would cause an increase in taxes. You can lay mor

It is cheaper to make laws like this than to actually help poor people by giving them cash or services, which would cause an increase in taxes. You can lay more of the burden on the upper middle and middle income deciles (since the costs are spread implicitly via costs to comply with regulation and liability avoidance), and avoid taxing the top percentiles, which really would require a broad wealth (or property) tax. Or alternatively, much higher land value taxes which hit the top percentiles too.

RHSeeger 3y ago
> You can lay more of the burden on the upper middle and middle income deciles This seems like it just means everyone will pay whatever the highest cost for anyone is. Doesn't seem like it burden's the middle more than anyone else.
- bentona 3y ago
  The argument is that the cost of dealing with this legislation will result in the cost of internet service going up slightly, e.g. $10/month. This is irrelevant to the wealthy but impacts the lower classes more.
  - mulmen 3y ago
    It can’t go up an equal amount for everyone because it has to end up equal and it currently isn’t. Since poor neighborhoods already pay more for less they will either get better service for the current price or pay less for existing service.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  The subsidy is a tax, in the form of higher prices. A flat tax is a regressive tax. Lower income/wealth deciles pay proportionately more towards the subsidy than upper income/wealth deciles. This is always the intent when government does not explicitly provide a taxpayer subsidy, because the cash cannot come from the government, otherwise the government’s finances will reflect the higher cash outlay, necessitating higher tax revenue, which could end up with higher tax rates for richer people.
umvi 3y ago
Cash and services just helps the symptoms though. Addressing the root cause involves educating the poor somehow so that they have the skills to be more financially self reliant and the ability to avoid traps (lottery, debt, etc). Being poor (long term, i.e. across generations) actually has little to do with how much money is currently in your bank account and everything to do with how much knowledge is in your mind. That's why you could take a highly paid [insert profession], take every penny and possession of theirs and dump them on the street penniless and homeless, and they wouldn't stay poor for very long if they didn't want to.
- LoganDark 3y ago
  What?! Being poor has nothing to do with not having skills. Plenty of people have skills they can't even use either because they get outcompeted or there just aren't any opportunities they can access. Not everyone can just magically skill themselves out of poverty.
  - umvi 3y ago
    I disagree. When I look at chronic poverty, a very common, almost guaranteed symptom is lack of skills/education (dropped out of high school, etc). I'm not saying there aren't highly skilled poor people (i.e. starving artists) just that it's more the exception than the rule.
    - LoganDark 3y ago
      Look, my family's in a situation where the living prices are sucking us dry and nearly putting us in debt, all the jobs around here have so many candidates to pick from that we can't get any roles, and because we have no savings we can't afford to move. Maybe what you say can be true for some, but it's hard to survive here if you weren't already born into a privileged position. I finally happen to be in interviews for a potential remote position now, but it took years to get here, it was not easy, and staying in high school for longer would not have helped. Now, I'm still lucky to have access to computers. Try telling someone without that kind of access to just find a remote job if there are no local jobs in their area. All the education and skill in the world still might not help them if they don't have access to employment opportunities at all.

RHSeeger 3y ago

> You can lay more of the burden on the upper middle and middle income deciles This seems like it just means everyone will pay whatever the highest cost for anyone is. Doesn't seem like it burden's the middle more than anyone else.

bentona 3y ago
The argument is that the cost of dealing with this legislation will result in the cost of internet service going up slightly, e.g. $10/month. This is irrelevant to the wealthy but impacts the lower classes more.
- mulmen 3y ago
  It can’t go up an equal amount for everyone because it has to end up equal and it currently isn’t. Since poor neighborhoods already pay more for less they will either get better service for the current price or pay less for existing service.
lotsofpulp 3y ago
The subsidy is a tax, in the form of higher prices. A flat tax is a regressive tax. Lower income/wealth deciles pay proportionately more towards the subsidy than upper income/wealth deciles. This is always the intent when government does not explicitly provide a taxpayer subsidy, because the cash cannot come from the government, otherwise the government’s finances will reflect the higher cash outlay, necessitating higher tax revenue, which could end up with higher tax rates for richer people.

umvi 3y ago

Cash and services just helps the symptoms though. Addressing the root cause involves educating the poor somehow so that they have the skills to be more financially self reliant and the ability to avoid traps (lottery, debt, etc). Being poor (long term, i.e. across generations) actually has little to do with how much money is currently in your bank account and everything to do with how much knowledge is in your mind. That's why you could take a highly paid [insert profession], take every penny and possession of theirs and dump them on the street penniless and homeless, and they wouldn't stay poor for very long if they didn't want to.

LoganDark 3y ago
What?! Being poor has nothing to do with not having skills. Plenty of people have skills they can't even use either because they get outcompeted or there just aren't any opportunities they can access. Not everyone can just magically skill themselves out of poverty.
- umvi 3y ago
  I disagree. When I look at chronic poverty, a very common, almost guaranteed symptom is lack of skills/education (dropped out of high school, etc). I'm not saying there aren't highly skilled poor people (i.e. starving artists) just that it's more the exception than the rule.
  - LoganDark 3y ago
    Look, my family's in a situation where the living prices are sucking us dry and nearly putting us in debt, all the jobs around here have so many candidates to pick from that we can't get any roles, and because we have no savings we can't afford to move. Maybe what you say can be true for some, but it's hard to survive here if you weren't already born into a privileged position. I finally happen to be in interviews for a potential remote position now, but it took years to get here, it was not easy, and staying in high school for longer would not have helped. Now, I'm still lucky to have access to computers. Try telling someone without that kind of access to just find a remote job if there are no local jobs in their area. All the education and skill in the world still might not help them if they don't have access to employment opportunities at all.