3 ms·

BTW, Ś can be typed using the new AZERTY by pressing Alt Gr + 2 then S : https://norme-azerty.fr/en/ https://norme-azerty.fr/en/ > Right Alt in Windows was in

BTW, Ś can be typed using the new AZERTY by pressing Alt Gr + 2 then S : https://norme-azerty.fr/en/ https://norme-azerty.fr/en/ > Right Alt in Windows was internally mapped as a rarely-used combination of Ctrl and Alt pressed together. Why "was" ? (the link is broken) You will also note that the new AZERTY doesn't use left Alt, rightly assuming that it's expected to be used for menu shortcuts. (It's a shame though that the new AZERTY can do Greek... but not Cyrillic, a real missed opportunity for a true pan-European keyboard !) ---- > Both Windows 3.x and 95 had terrific keyboard support. The menu items and dialogs had controls that could be accessed easily by mouse… but also much quicker by pressing Alt and the underlined letter: [...] > Most of Microsoft Windows UI could be turned into a sequence of keyboard shortcuts, which was incredibly powerful (and something Mac could still learn from). Is that specifically Windows though, or rather IBM's Common User Access ? (Apple, as a competitor, and being Apple, did their own thing.) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39130984 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39130984 http://www.susandoreydesigns.com/software/CommonUserAccessGUIDesign.pdf http://www.susandoreydesigns.com/software/CommonUserAccessGU...

alfanick 3y ago
That doesn't help Polish people - no sane person would use Azerty in Poland ;)
- ajuc 3y ago
  Or qwertz for that matter. The Polish-machinist keyboard layout even stopped being enabled by default in Windows after causing countless "I can't log in" problems for like 20 years :)
  - garaetjjte 3y ago
    I often quipped that hardest part of installing Windows was that you needed to know to switch 214 to programmer layout.
- BlueTemplar 3y ago
  AZERTY, just like QWERTY, and QWERTZ should probably be all discarded anyway, since they date back to the now nearly 150 years old era, designed so that typists don't type too fast, which caused jamming to these early machines. In favour maybe of the likes of Dvorak (hey, wasn't he Czech ?) or BÉPO (any central/eastern-European equivalents ?). (The same researchers seem to have made a "new BÉPO" version, which, I guess, might be a "next step", when/if the new AZERTY becomes common ??) But that's not the point of the new AZERTY, its point is to provide a keyboard layout that finally allows proper typing in (Latin- and Greek-based) languages other than English. (The old AZERTY still didn't allow that, for instance no capital letters with diacritics, unless if maybe you use more advanced software ?) (Also, a much easier access to the {([])} symbols than the old AZERTY, which programmers are sure to appreciate !) All the while still keeping a familiar layout - and you'll have to concede that it should be more familiar to QWERTY / QWERTZ users than Dvorak / BÉPO, won't you ?
toast0 3y ago
> Is that specifically Windows though, or rather IBM's Common User Access ? Microsoft was following the CUA principles, more or less, but they still get credit for actually doing it. Apple has some stuff for keyboard access, but it never felt complete; maybe I just needed to read more stuff, but it was always hard getting along on a Mac without using the keyboard, whereas Windows was always mouse optional (although it gets worse with every release).

alfanick 3y ago

That doesn't help Polish people - no sane person would use Azerty in Poland ;)

ajuc 3y ago
Or qwertz for that matter. The Polish-machinist keyboard layout even stopped being enabled by default in Windows after causing countless "I can't log in" problems for like 20 years :)
- garaetjjte 3y ago
  I often quipped that hardest part of installing Windows was that you needed to know to switch 214 to programmer layout.
BlueTemplar 3y ago
AZERTY, just like QWERTY, and QWERTZ should probably be all discarded anyway, since they date back to the now nearly 150 years old era, designed so that typists don't type too fast, which caused jamming to these early machines. In favour maybe of the likes of Dvorak (hey, wasn't he Czech ?) or BÉPO (any central/eastern-European equivalents ?). (The same researchers seem to have made a "new BÉPO" version, which, I guess, might be a "next step", when/if the new AZERTY becomes common ??) But that's not the point of the new AZERTY, its point is to provide a keyboard layout that finally allows proper typing in (Latin- and Greek-based) languages other than English. (The old AZERTY still didn't allow that, for instance no capital letters with diacritics, unless if maybe you use more advanced software ?) (Also, a much easier access to the {([])} symbols than the old AZERTY, which programmers are sure to appreciate !) All the while still keeping a familiar layout - and you'll have to concede that it should be more familiar to QWERTY / QWERTZ users than Dvorak / BÉPO, won't you ?

toast0 3y ago

> Is that specifically Windows though, or rather IBM's Common User Access ? Microsoft was following the CUA principles, more or less, but they still get credit for actually doing it. Apple has some stuff for keyboard access, but it never felt complete; maybe I just needed to read more stuff, but it was always hard getting along on a Mac without using the keyboard, whereas Windows was always mouse optional (although it gets worse with every release).