4 ms·

How weird. Putting all responsibility on the seller. Why not "car owners should consider climate effects of pumping the car with gas" "shoppers should consi

by tomp 3y ago

How weird. Putting all responsibility on the seller. Why not "car owners should consider climate effects of pumping the car with gas" "shoppers should consider climate effects of buying food in a grocery store"

otikik 3y ago
Is that so weird? I do all those things that you are quoting.
- melling 3y ago
  Look up the best selling cars in America. We buy big cars and trucks. Lots of them!
- henriquez 3y ago
  It’s the science religion’s concept of Original Sin. Everything you do requires penance.
  - otikik 3y ago
    That's one way to look at it. I prefer to think of it as "everything that I do requires me thinking about the consequences". I can see how that can feel like "penance" for someone not used to do it. It's not that bad. It's less difficult than going to the gym.
rcMgD2BwE72F 3y ago
>Putting all responsibility on the seller. It's a share responsibility. If the seller is domestic (under local laws), they're responsible and can't sell if sales doesn't follow climate change regulations. But if seller is foreign (not under local laws), then buyer can be help responsible. It's a transaction so both parties should be responsible.
plastic3169 3y ago
Haven’t we all done our carbon footprint calculations for 20 years since oil company BP popularized the term[1]? The idea is exactly to diffuse the responsibility to tiny units so that no one is actually doing enough harm to really matter. Handful of companies are doing the producing side of the equation and it’s so much easier to do meaningful actions in that side. Problem is that we really do need oil so it’s easier said than done. [1] https://mashable.com/feature/carbon-footprint-pr-campaign-sham https://mashable.com/feature/carbon-footprint-pr-campaign-sh...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
avgcorrection 3y ago
That the responsibility is in the end of the whole pipeline (the consumer) is 90% of the environmental propaganda—plastic bags, plastic straws, consumer lifestyle.
bee_rider 3y ago
Cars, yeah, that’s a big decision, making the right pick is a responsibility that lots of people fail at. It is all well documented, MPG is provided, so you just have to make the right pick. Groceries, unfortunately the carbon cost is not obvious, food grown in one country, shipped to another, processed and packed in a third country. It’s all a convoluted mess. If the companies were required to track and report their carbon cost on the box, maybe we could start talking about personal responsibility. In general burning fossil fuels is way of externalizing a cost onto the planet (cheap energy as long as you don’t account for the environment). Companies receiving this free subsidy from the environment have an advantage over companies that don’t receive the subsidy, and it is basically impossible to detect who is receiving the subsidy from the outside. We need to correct this evasion of normal market forces.

by tomp 3y ago

otikik 3y ago

Is that so weird? I do all those things that you are quoting.

melling 3y ago
Look up the best selling cars in America. We buy big cars and trucks. Lots of them!
henriquez 3y ago
It’s the science religion’s concept of Original Sin. Everything you do requires penance.
- otikik 3y ago
  That's one way to look at it. I prefer to think of it as "everything that I do requires me thinking about the consequences". I can see how that can feel like "penance" for someone not used to do it. It's not that bad. It's less difficult than going to the gym.

rcMgD2BwE72F 3y ago

>Putting all responsibility on the seller. It's a share responsibility. If the seller is domestic (under local laws), they're responsible and can't sell if sales doesn't follow climate change regulations. But if seller is foreign (not under local laws), then buyer can be help responsible. It's a transaction so both parties should be responsible.

plastic3169 3y ago

Haven’t we all done our carbon footprint calculations for 20 years since oil company BP popularized the term[1]? The idea is exactly to diffuse the responsibility to tiny units so that no one is actually doing enough harm to really matter. Handful of companies are doing the producing side of the equation and it’s so much easier to do meaningful actions in that side. Problem is that we really do need oil so it’s easier said than done. [1] https://mashable.com/feature/carbon-footprint-pr-campaign-sham https://mashable.com/feature/carbon-footprint-pr-campaign-sh...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

avgcorrection 3y ago

That the responsibility is in the end of the whole pipeline (the consumer) is 90% of the environmental propaganda—plastic bags, plastic straws, consumer lifestyle.

bee_rider 3y ago

Cars, yeah, that’s a big decision, making the right pick is a responsibility that lots of people fail at. It is all well documented, MPG is provided, so you just have to make the right pick. Groceries, unfortunately the carbon cost is not obvious, food grown in one country, shipped to another, processed and packed in a third country. It’s all a convoluted mess. If the companies were required to track and report their carbon cost on the box, maybe we could start talking about personal responsibility. In general burning fossil fuels is way of externalizing a cost onto the planet (cheap energy as long as you don’t account for the environment). Companies receiving this free subsidy from the environment have an advantage over companies that don’t receive the subsidy, and it is basically impossible to detect who is receiving the subsidy from the outside. We need to correct this evasion of normal market forces.