3 ms·

I can understand how he feels. But haters gonna hate, criminals gonna crime. He threw some new thoughts into the world, he made people think. surely he did not

I can understand how he feels. But haters gonna hate, criminals gonna crime. He threw some new thoughts into the world, he made people think. surely he did not demagnetize people's moral compasses. It reeks of illusions of grandeur. Sure it is a nice piece, but he overestimates the influence imho. Similar to William Gibson thinking he is the father of things Steam Punk ever. Edit: Indeed I meant cyber punk.

vsnf 3y ago
> Steam Punk Cyber Punk?
- flohofwoe 3y ago
  Probably a typo, but Gibson also co-authored The Difference Engine, which is as Steam Punk as it gets :) (and according to Wikipedia "...is widely regarded as a book that helped establish the genre conventions of steampunk.")
  - danjoredd 3y ago
    Im going to have to read that now. Loved Neuromancer, and Steam Punk is one of my favorite genres
    - justsomehnguy 3y ago
      Another one of today's lucky 10000. It's a hard piece but overall I enjoyed reading it.
    - flohofwoe 3y ago
      Difference Engine starts great but then towards the end kind of fizzles out (IIRC, maybe I should read it again).
      - Apocryphon 3y ago
        It was a Gibson-Sterling joint but you almost have to wonder if Stephenson ghostwrote the last bit.
  - jjkaczor 3y ago
    ... Well, I think many of the genre conventions were established enough that there was even one tabletop Steam Punk RPG that predated the publication of "The Difference Engine" (1990): Space 1889 - (first published in 1988/89) However - I think it was essentially just a convergence of cultural zeitgeist within about an 8-year period. (Myself, I preferred "Castle Falkenstein" (1994) - but that was because I liked just about anything Mike Pondsmith/Talsorian released)
drakenot 3y ago
William Gibson is the father of Cyberpunk, not Steam Punk. Though if Gibson is the father, I might say Bester is the grandfather.
- bediger4000 3y ago
  Alfred Bester has fallen into obscurity for sure. How do you figure Bester and not Lem as the grandfather?
  - TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
    Bester and Lem are amazing in their different ways, and it's tragic that both aren't better known. I wouldn't put one over the other, but I think Bester gets the call because his view was classic mid-century US, and was an obvious influence on Cyberpunk. Lem had a different more subtle aesthetic.
  - flohofwoe 3y ago
    IMHO Lem's work has a lot of "cyber" but no "punk" in it ;) E.g. while Lem's future (in his science fiction books) isn't exactly a happy utopia, it's also not the depressing dystopia I would associate with "cyberpunk" - but maybe... "Peace on Earth" might qualify as "robopunk"? :)
  - Apocryphon 3y ago
    John Brunner is closer to being a cyberpunk grandfather, imo
    - drakenot 3y ago
      I just remember reading The Stars My Destination from Bester and noticing all these elements: * Mega-corporations with immense power and influence over all of society (Kodak of Kodak) * Drug dens offering synthetic designer drugs that made people feel as if they were various animals. * The protagonist receiving an upgrade to his nervous system, including a tooth-based switch that allowed him to 'speed up' for brief periods. * Status symbols of the ultra-rich, such as using the most elaborate physical conveyances in an era of effortless teleportation. I'm probably missing some, but it felt like such a prototype novel to something like Neuromancer and was written in 1956!
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zer00eyz 3y ago
>> Similar to William Gibson thinking he is the father of things Steam Punk ever. Great observation! Being a popular part of a zeitgeist is not the same as defining it. I have to wonder if, and the article does hint at, "if the movie was never made..." FTA: Burgess introduced a character “with a beard like Stanley Kubrick’s” who played Singin’ in the Rain with a trumpet — before being kicked off the stage.

vsnf 3y ago

> Steam Punk Cyber Punk?

flohofwoe 3y ago
Probably a typo, but Gibson also co-authored The Difference Engine, which is as Steam Punk as it gets :) (and according to Wikipedia "...is widely regarded as a book that helped establish the genre conventions of steampunk.")
- danjoredd 3y ago
  Im going to have to read that now. Loved Neuromancer, and Steam Punk is one of my favorite genres
  - justsomehnguy 3y ago
    Another one of today's lucky 10000. It's a hard piece but overall I enjoyed reading it.
  - flohofwoe 3y ago
    Difference Engine starts great but then towards the end kind of fizzles out (IIRC, maybe I should read it again).
    - Apocryphon 3y ago
      It was a Gibson-Sterling joint but you almost have to wonder if Stephenson ghostwrote the last bit.
- jjkaczor 3y ago
  ... Well, I think many of the genre conventions were established enough that there was even one tabletop Steam Punk RPG that predated the publication of "The Difference Engine" (1990): Space 1889 - (first published in 1988/89) However - I think it was essentially just a convergence of cultural zeitgeist within about an 8-year period. (Myself, I preferred "Castle Falkenstein" (1994) - but that was because I liked just about anything Mike Pondsmith/Talsorian released)

drakenot 3y ago

William Gibson is the father of Cyberpunk, not Steam Punk. Though if Gibson is the father, I might say Bester is the grandfather.

bediger4000 3y ago
Alfred Bester has fallen into obscurity for sure. How do you figure Bester and not Lem as the grandfather?
- TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
  Bester and Lem are amazing in their different ways, and it's tragic that both aren't better known. I wouldn't put one over the other, but I think Bester gets the call because his view was classic mid-century US, and was an obvious influence on Cyberpunk. Lem had a different more subtle aesthetic.
- flohofwoe 3y ago
  IMHO Lem's work has a lot of "cyber" but no "punk" in it ;) E.g. while Lem's future (in his science fiction books) isn't exactly a happy utopia, it's also not the depressing dystopia I would associate with "cyberpunk" - but maybe... "Peace on Earth" might qualify as "robopunk"? :)
- Apocryphon 3y ago
  John Brunner is closer to being a cyberpunk grandfather, imo
  - drakenot 3y ago
    I just remember reading The Stars My Destination from Bester and noticing all these elements: * Mega-corporations with immense power and influence over all of society (Kodak of Kodak) * Drug dens offering synthetic designer drugs that made people feel as if they were various animals. * The protagonist receiving an upgrade to his nervous system, including a tooth-based switch that allowed him to 'speed up' for brief periods. * Status symbols of the ultra-rich, such as using the most elaborate physical conveyances in an era of effortless teleportation. I'm probably missing some, but it felt like such a prototype novel to something like Neuromancer and was written in 1956!

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zer00eyz 3y ago

>> Similar to William Gibson thinking he is the father of things Steam Punk ever. Great observation! Being a popular part of a zeitgeist is not the same as defining it. I have to wonder if, and the article does hint at, "if the movie was never made..." FTA: Burgess introduced a character “with a beard like Stanley Kubrick’s” who played Singin’ in the Rain with a trumpet — before being kicked off the stage.