4 ms·

And nothing of value was lost. Seriously, their "Messenger" software was the most emblematic of this. If memory serves, the name of the program in chronologica

by kmfrk 15y ago

And nothing of value was lost. Seriously, their "Messenger" software was the most emblematic of this. If memory serves, the name of the program in chronological order is: 1. Windows Messenger 2. MSN Messenger 3. Live Messenger 4. Messenger The constant needless iterations of the software - which was basically perfect around MSN Messenger - made it suck so much, because they wanted to cram social gunk into it, add toolbars, and revamp the interface for no goddamn reason that I would willfully give it up and shun digital contact with my friends, since I don't have a Facebook user. This is why Windows users drink.

josephcooney 15y ago
nothing of value was lost? There was no mention of Windows Live Writer in the announcement, which saddens me a bit. It is the best piece of software of its kind that I know of for writing blog posts etc.
- hartez 15y ago
  It was the best piece of blogging software available. Then they did that horrible ribbon redesign and ruined a near-perfect interface.
  - ishansharma 15y ago
    Agreed. I loved using it but ribbon is horrible. Still, it is best on Windows and I hope they do not do anything stupid with it.
  - Encosia 15y ago
    Hit Ctrl-F1 to hide the ribbon.
lucianof 15y ago
Your point - that the software was at its peak when it was called MSN Messenger - is exemplified by the fact that most people still call it MSN Messenger. It seems even teens, who've probably never seen this brand out in the wild still call it MSN.
- kmfrk 15y ago
  A thing that is so serendipitously weird about the program is that it has the best IM emoticons of any IM client of all time. I think they since replaced the icons with some new eye sores, but it was fascinating how the smilies in some way revolutionized the way I and others communicated, because they really helped create a good mood and served the purpose of disambiguation. Smilies and emoticons aren't a gimmick, which some erroneously believe; it's just that they have to be designed properly before they can serve a purpose. For one, people have to want them because of their design, and second, they have to convey the user's mood unambiguously. Interet forums (AKA bulletin boards) often live or die by them, because the worst-case scenario results in the must insufferable atmosphere of bitter curmudgeons. Developers at everywhere from Facebook, Skype, Google, and Tapbots don't seem to get this and just include for them for reasons they probably don't know themselves. The smilies were actually a huge part of what made the older version of Messenger great, and for more important reasons that people would think. It was the main litmus test when I compared to competitors; none of them got it. I believe it was also fairly novel in introducing the "X is typing a message" feature, but I could be wrong on that. It wasn't perfect by any means; the X Messenger Plus extension became mandatory fairly early on: http://www.msgplus.net http://www.msgplus.net.
  - philwelch 15y ago
    Whenever and wherever I possibly could, I always disabled graphical emoticons in favor of the text-only versions. I don't know why--maybe it's the same reason I turn off HTML email and do all of my programming and most of my writing and notekeeping in vim in a terminal window. Suffice it to say, it's quite weird to see someone wax poetic about the minute details of designing one of my least favorite features. It's so strange that even though I can't detect a bit of irony in your post, I'm still not sure whether or not this is some kind of elaborate joke.
    - untog 15y ago
      it's quite weird to see someone wax poetic about the minute details of designing one of my least favorite features Someone has a different opinion to you. This is not rare, and should not be surprising. Turning off HTML e-mails, using vim... you are in a tiny, tiny minority. Nothing wrong with that, but don't go around thinking that people are being ironic because they don't agree with you.
Corvus 15y ago
From the Vista era: Windows Live Messenger My relatives still use that. That was also the one that added advertising to the bottom of the window.
- batiudrami 15y ago
  MSN has had an ad at the bottom of the chat window for a long time - at least since version 4.X. The version which came separately with XP, 'Windows Messenger' (which would, for some reason, operate separately from newer MSN versions installed on the same PC) didn't have the ads, however.
Avshalom 15y ago
As a note http://apatch.org/index.php http://apatch.org/index.php A-patch is a patch to rip out the social gunk and toolbars, I haven't used Messenger in years so I don't know if its any good anymore but it used to be great for keeping the UI tolerable.
randomfool 15y ago
This is basically Microsoft's internal organizations being forced outward, and powerful marketing people attempting to either latch onto existing brands where inappropriate (Windows, also often Office) or build new ones (Live, SQL, Visual Studio). What's happened now is that there's finally someone sensible with enough pull to get these back in line- Sinofsky. Core services for Microsoft are getting the Microsoft brand (Microsoft Account), and the unnecessary 'Windows' prefix is going away. It's just mail now. (Thank you very much Apple for initiating this trend).
isani 15y ago
Similarly, there's the lineage of: 1. Microsoft Passport 2. .NET Passport 3. Microsoft Passport Network 4. Windows Live Passport 5. Microsoft Account It seems that whenever Microsoft releases a new strategy white paper, the Passport brand changes.

by kmfrk 15y ago

josephcooney 15y ago

nothing of value was lost? There was no mention of Windows Live Writer in the announcement, which saddens me a bit. It is the best piece of software of its kind that I know of for writing blog posts etc.

hartez 15y ago
It was the best piece of blogging software available. Then they did that horrible ribbon redesign and ruined a near-perfect interface.
- ishansharma 15y ago
  Agreed. I loved using it but ribbon is horrible. Still, it is best on Windows and I hope they do not do anything stupid with it.
- Encosia 15y ago
  Hit Ctrl-F1 to hide the ribbon.

lucianof 15y ago

Your point - that the software was at its peak when it was called MSN Messenger - is exemplified by the fact that most people still call it MSN Messenger. It seems even teens, who've probably never seen this brand out in the wild still call it MSN.

kmfrk 15y ago
A thing that is so serendipitously weird about the program is that it has the best IM emoticons of any IM client of all time. I think they since replaced the icons with some new eye sores, but it was fascinating how the smilies in some way revolutionized the way I and others communicated, because they really helped create a good mood and served the purpose of disambiguation. Smilies and emoticons aren't a gimmick, which some erroneously believe; it's just that they have to be designed properly before they can serve a purpose. For one, people have to want them because of their design, and second, they have to convey the user's mood unambiguously. Interet forums (AKA bulletin boards) often live or die by them, because the worst-case scenario results in the must insufferable atmosphere of bitter curmudgeons. Developers at everywhere from Facebook, Skype, Google, and Tapbots don't seem to get this and just include for them for reasons they probably don't know themselves. The smilies were actually a huge part of what made the older version of Messenger great, and for more important reasons that people would think. It was the main litmus test when I compared to competitors; none of them got it. I believe it was also fairly novel in introducing the "X is typing a message" feature, but I could be wrong on that. It wasn't perfect by any means; the X Messenger Plus extension became mandatory fairly early on: http://www.msgplus.net http://www.msgplus.net.
- philwelch 15y ago
  Whenever and wherever I possibly could, I always disabled graphical emoticons in favor of the text-only versions. I don't know why--maybe it's the same reason I turn off HTML email and do all of my programming and most of my writing and notekeeping in vim in a terminal window. Suffice it to say, it's quite weird to see someone wax poetic about the minute details of designing one of my least favorite features. It's so strange that even though I can't detect a bit of irony in your post, I'm still not sure whether or not this is some kind of elaborate joke.
  - untog 15y ago
    it's quite weird to see someone wax poetic about the minute details of designing one of my least favorite features Someone has a different opinion to you. This is not rare, and should not be surprising. Turning off HTML e-mails, using vim... you are in a tiny, tiny minority. Nothing wrong with that, but don't go around thinking that people are being ironic because they don't agree with you.

Corvus 15y ago

From the Vista era: Windows Live Messenger My relatives still use that. That was also the one that added advertising to the bottom of the window.

batiudrami 15y ago
MSN has had an ad at the bottom of the chat window for a long time - at least since version 4.X. The version which came separately with XP, 'Windows Messenger' (which would, for some reason, operate separately from newer MSN versions installed on the same PC) didn't have the ads, however.

Avshalom 15y ago

As a note http://apatch.org/index.php http://apatch.org/index.php A-patch is a patch to rip out the social gunk and toolbars, I haven't used Messenger in years so I don't know if its any good anymore but it used to be great for keeping the UI tolerable.

randomfool 15y ago

This is basically Microsoft's internal organizations being forced outward, and powerful marketing people attempting to either latch onto existing brands where inappropriate (Windows, also often Office) or build new ones (Live, SQL, Visual Studio). What's happened now is that there's finally someone sensible with enough pull to get these back in line- Sinofsky. Core services for Microsoft are getting the Microsoft brand (Microsoft Account), and the unnecessary 'Windows' prefix is going away. It's just mail now. (Thank you very much Apple for initiating this trend).

isani 15y ago

Similarly, there's the lineage of: 1. Microsoft Passport 2. .NET Passport 3. Microsoft Passport Network 4. Windows Live Passport 5. Microsoft Account It seems that whenever Microsoft releases a new strategy white paper, the Passport brand changes.