7 ms·

Not to be insensitive to a sensitive topic, but isn't Meta the 'single largest market for <almost anything>'?

TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
1. No 2. Even if it were true, it's irrelevant. Because Meta is supposed to have automated systems that try to prevent this. Which means they're not working, or Meta doesn't care, or both.
- Cthulhu_ 3y ago
  At the scale of Meta, even if they're 99% effective, 1% still represents tens of thousands. Facebook currently has 3 billion active users per month.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
reqo 3y ago
Yes but it does not invalidate the fact!
- coldtea 3y ago
  Kind of does. Facts don't mean anything without perspective.
- croes 3y ago
  >says he believes the social media company is the “largest marketplace for predators and paedophiles globally”. Doesn't sound like a fact. On FB it's easier to find them compared to Telegram for instance
- wiseowise 3y ago
  100% of pedos drink water! 100% of pedos breath same air as you and me! Wow, what a fact.
  - meiraleal 3y ago
    Meta profits from pedo drinking their water.
    - wiseowise 3y ago
      Buses profit from pedos spying on kids in them. Google and Apple profit from pedos using their phones to spy on kids. Public infrastructure provides convenience for pedos to do their dirty work. I can continue like that for a long time, you know.
- Arnt 3y ago
  It invalidates by twisting. Rhetorically speaking it's simple to make the biggest in some class seem to be worst in some related class. If I'm the biggest taxi operator in town, I'm likely to have the highest CO₂ emissions of all the taxi companies, see? You can omit or deemphasise the connection between the two and make me seem bad. It's just a form of lying by omission.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jansan 3y ago
> isn't Meta the 'single largest market for <almost anything>' No, it isn't. Far from it. Edit: Unless those angled brackets have a meaning that I am not aware of.
- remus 3y ago
  I suspect the GP was being facetious, but the point that meta is massive is a good one imo. With billions of users your platform can become 'the largest market for x' for many niche use cases without it really saying much about the platform itself.
  - BLKNSLVR 3y ago
    I try not to be facetious these days, especially on HN. What you said is basically what I was attempting to point out. To jansan: The angled brackets is what I've used for a long time to represent a variable or as-yet-unknown value, ie. <Fill in the Blank>
  - meiraleal 3y ago
    I'm missing something or you guys are? They still should answer and pay for being the biggest market for criminal activities
    - jevoten 3y ago
      Why Meta and not the ISPs trafficking the child exploitation bits, or Xiaomi and Apple for selling the silicon that enables it? Or the GNU project for providing disk encryption software that hides it. The end goal is to morally and legally blackmail every company to act as an active spy for the panopticon.
      - meiraleal 3y ago
        Because Meta makes more money than all the ISPs together and the ISPs offer a much more useful value to the users. And no, the end goal is to not allow companies to profit from human misery which it seems you aren't against.
supriyo-biswas 3y ago
One would have to assume all of these things are points of negotiation to get Meta to disable E2E on FB messenger and WhatsApp, along with the public allegations made for years prior that providing encrypted channels directly supported the cause of pedophiles. (It is also interesting to me that in ~2010, such discussions used to use terrorism, and now it’s CSAM/pedophilia.)
- thaumasiotes 3y ago
  In 2010 threatening people with terrorism was already almost a decade out of date. Eventually, if you keep threatening people with an outcome that they can easily detect, they'll notice that it's not happening. It's better to threaten them with something invisible.
  - jvanderbot 3y ago
    The implication is that these are false allegations but that's not even necessary. All this can be true and it is still a bad idea to unilaterally break encryption, just as it was a bad idea to allow unilateral use of wiretap. If we stick the debate around the truthiness of the allegations, it only takes a few bad examples to lose that argument.
    - thaumasiotes 3y ago
      The implication isn't that the allegations are false. The implication is that the problem is imaginary. Facebook can easily be the largest site of an imaginary problem. > If we stick the debate around the truthiness of the allegations, it only takes a few bad examples to lose that argument. That is true, but the argument here is over why people stopped appealing to terrorism to support their policy preferences.
      - jvanderbot 3y ago
        I'm sorry. I don't see the difference between a problem being imaginary and allegations of a problem being false. If you allege a problem exists, and it's imaginary, then your allegation is false. So, I'm just saying we can oppose the policy preference regardless of why they stopped appealing to a problem, and regardless of that problem's "realness"
crotchfire 3y ago
I'm pretty sure Silk Road had them beat on largest single market for outlawed drugs. I have no idea which darknet market holds that crown today, but I'm willing to wager it isn't Zuckerland.
- walthamstow 3y ago
  I think you're underestimating the amount of drugs sold via WhatsApp and Facebook The largest single market is probably Telegram. I bought some cannabis live resin on Telegram just this week. Next day delivery! IMO no dark net market will ever be bigger than an app you can download on iOS and Android
  - herbst 3y ago
    > IMO no dark net market will ever be bigger than an app you can download on iOS and Android I heavily doubt that and think you heavily underestimate DN markets by service and volume. We live in crazy times, that's sure.
    - Arnt 3y ago
      How do you order on "DN markets"? Can you give me a three-paragraph howto, starting from the point where I have cash, a card or the kind of paypal/bank/… most people have, but not any particular software installed. I ask because… if this is something a lot of people do, then it must either be really simple or there are howtos on youtube/quora/… and I can't find any howto.
      - herbst 3y ago
        You can just open it up and take a look yourself, it's no hidden secret it's just well encrypted. It's not complicated at all
        Arnt 3y ago
        I feel that there's a lot hidden in that word "just". The shopping sites you have in mind, are they searchable using google? Do they accept visa cards or paypal? You wrote that GP "heavily underestimate DN markets by service and volume". If those markets can't be found using mass-market search engines and don't accept payment using mass-market payment services, then I think they're either nïche or you need to explain how they reached large volume.
ChatGTP 3y ago
Even if that's true, it's still a bad thing is used for the sale and or distribution of child porn.
blackoil 3y ago
If we generalize further, the Internet is biggest distributor of CSAM.
EasyMark 3y ago
I have my doubts on that. I think the world has moved on from facebook, leaving only instagram as influential under the meta umbrella. Amazon is the biggest market for buying stuff Tiktok is the biggest market for pedophiles/disinformation Instagram is the biggest market for self absorbed people Twitter is the second biggest market for disinformation and terrorism etc
- Shish2k 3y ago
  > I think the world has moved on from facebook The HN bubble has moved on for sure, but going by DAU/MAU (which isn’t perfect but is better than “I think”), facebook is still the biggest and is still growing
  - EasyMark 3y ago
    I just don't see how. I have several neices and nephews. I use facebook to share photos of family and such. I rarely see any activity at all from the younger relatives that I'm following. I just don't think it happens, they should be getting at all social media rather than just facebook. I don't support any of these "think of the children" laws though, because basically the government wants to use it as a backdoor to track everyone and their cat on social media.
slantaclaus 3y ago
Meta is a holding company I’ve been told

1. No 2. Even if it were true, it's irrelevant. Because Meta is supposed to have automated systems that try to prevent this. Which means they're not working, or Meta doesn't care, or both.

Cthulhu_ 3y ago
At the scale of Meta, even if they're 99% effective, 1% still represents tens of thousands. Facebook currently has 3 billion active users per month.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

reqo 3y ago

Yes but it does not invalidate the fact!

coldtea 3y ago
Kind of does. Facts don't mean anything without perspective.
croes 3y ago
>says he believes the social media company is the “largest marketplace for predators and paedophiles globally”. Doesn't sound like a fact. On FB it's easier to find them compared to Telegram for instance
wiseowise 3y ago
100% of pedos drink water! 100% of pedos breath same air as you and me! Wow, what a fact.
- meiraleal 3y ago
  Meta profits from pedo drinking their water.
  - wiseowise 3y ago
    Buses profit from pedos spying on kids in them. Google and Apple profit from pedos using their phones to spy on kids. Public infrastructure provides convenience for pedos to do their dirty work. I can continue like that for a long time, you know.
Arnt 3y ago
It invalidates by twisting. Rhetorically speaking it's simple to make the biggest in some class seem to be worst in some related class. If I'm the biggest taxi operator in town, I'm likely to have the highest CO₂ emissions of all the taxi companies, see? You can omit or deemphasise the connection between the two and make me seem bad. It's just a form of lying by omission.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

jansan 3y ago

> isn't Meta the 'single largest market for <almost anything>' No, it isn't. Far from it. Edit: Unless those angled brackets have a meaning that I am not aware of.

remus 3y ago
I suspect the GP was being facetious, but the point that meta is massive is a good one imo. With billions of users your platform can become 'the largest market for x' for many niche use cases without it really saying much about the platform itself.
- BLKNSLVR 3y ago
  I try not to be facetious these days, especially on HN. What you said is basically what I was attempting to point out. To jansan: The angled brackets is what I've used for a long time to represent a variable or as-yet-unknown value, ie. <Fill in the Blank>
- meiraleal 3y ago
  I'm missing something or you guys are? They still should answer and pay for being the biggest market for criminal activities
  - jevoten 3y ago
    Why Meta and not the ISPs trafficking the child exploitation bits, or Xiaomi and Apple for selling the silicon that enables it? Or the GNU project for providing disk encryption software that hides it. The end goal is to morally and legally blackmail every company to act as an active spy for the panopticon.
    - meiraleal 3y ago
      Because Meta makes more money than all the ISPs together and the ISPs offer a much more useful value to the users. And no, the end goal is to not allow companies to profit from human misery which it seems you aren't against.

supriyo-biswas 3y ago

One would have to assume all of these things are points of negotiation to get Meta to disable E2E on FB messenger and WhatsApp, along with the public allegations made for years prior that providing encrypted channels directly supported the cause of pedophiles. (It is also interesting to me that in ~2010, such discussions used to use terrorism, and now it’s CSAM/pedophilia.)

thaumasiotes 3y ago
In 2010 threatening people with terrorism was already almost a decade out of date. Eventually, if you keep threatening people with an outcome that they can easily detect, they'll notice that it's not happening. It's better to threaten them with something invisible.
- jvanderbot 3y ago
  The implication is that these are false allegations but that's not even necessary. All this can be true and it is still a bad idea to unilaterally break encryption, just as it was a bad idea to allow unilateral use of wiretap. If we stick the debate around the truthiness of the allegations, it only takes a few bad examples to lose that argument.
  - thaumasiotes 3y ago
    The implication isn't that the allegations are false. The implication is that the problem is imaginary. Facebook can easily be the largest site of an imaginary problem. > If we stick the debate around the truthiness of the allegations, it only takes a few bad examples to lose that argument. That is true, but the argument here is over why people stopped appealing to terrorism to support their policy preferences.
    - jvanderbot 3y ago
      I'm sorry. I don't see the difference between a problem being imaginary and allegations of a problem being false. If you allege a problem exists, and it's imaginary, then your allegation is false. So, I'm just saying we can oppose the policy preference regardless of why they stopped appealing to a problem, and regardless of that problem's "realness"

crotchfire 3y ago

I'm pretty sure Silk Road had them beat on largest single market for outlawed drugs. I have no idea which darknet market holds that crown today, but I'm willing to wager it isn't Zuckerland.

walthamstow 3y ago
I think you're underestimating the amount of drugs sold via WhatsApp and Facebook The largest single market is probably Telegram. I bought some cannabis live resin on Telegram just this week. Next day delivery! IMO no dark net market will ever be bigger than an app you can download on iOS and Android
- herbst 3y ago
  > IMO no dark net market will ever be bigger than an app you can download on iOS and Android I heavily doubt that and think you heavily underestimate DN markets by service and volume. We live in crazy times, that's sure.
  - Arnt 3y ago
    How do you order on "DN markets"? Can you give me a three-paragraph howto, starting from the point where I have cash, a card or the kind of paypal/bank/… most people have, but not any particular software installed. I ask because… if this is something a lot of people do, then it must either be really simple or there are howtos on youtube/quora/… and I can't find any howto.
    - herbst 3y ago
      You can just open it up and take a look yourself, it's no hidden secret it's just well encrypted. It's not complicated at all
      - Arnt 3y ago
        I feel that there's a lot hidden in that word "just". The shopping sites you have in mind, are they searchable using google? Do they accept visa cards or paypal? You wrote that GP "heavily underestimate DN markets by service and volume". If those markets can't be found using mass-market search engines and don't accept payment using mass-market payment services, then I think they're either nïche or you need to explain how they reached large volume.

ChatGTP 3y ago

Even if that's true, it's still a bad thing is used for the sale and or distribution of child porn.

blackoil 3y ago

If we generalize further, the Internet is biggest distributor of CSAM.

EasyMark 3y ago

I have my doubts on that. I think the world has moved on from facebook, leaving only instagram as influential under the meta umbrella. Amazon is the biggest market for buying stuff Tiktok is the biggest market for pedophiles/disinformation Instagram is the biggest market for self absorbed people Twitter is the second biggest market for disinformation and terrorism etc

Shish2k 3y ago
> I think the world has moved on from facebook The HN bubble has moved on for sure, but going by DAU/MAU (which isn’t perfect but is better than “I think”), facebook is still the biggest and is still growing
- EasyMark 3y ago
  I just don't see how. I have several neices and nephews. I use facebook to share photos of family and such. I rarely see any activity at all from the younger relatives that I'm following. I just don't think it happens, they should be getting at all social media rather than just facebook. I don't support any of these "think of the children" laws though, because basically the government wants to use it as a backdoor to track everyone and their cat on social media.

slantaclaus 3y ago

Meta is a holding company I’ve been told