8 ms·
Study finds that once people use cargo bikes, they like their cars much less
- jojobas 3y agoThe survey was strategically done in late Summer. I concede some people could still do their shopping in Hamburg's raining 2°C, but I'd guess the comparison charts would not be as cheerful.
- snitch182 3y agoIn hannover we have daily bike counters at certain bike lanes. The numbers go up and down depending on temperature and rain. Guess it depends on the options one has. If you still have a car you will not use the bike in the rain.
- tcfhgj 3y agoI have a car, it's use doesn't depend on the weather, but distance & stuff to carry (no cargo bike)
- djrobstep 3y agoNo such thing as bad weather, only bad clothing. Bike ponchos are a game changer for dealing with rain. I actively enjoy biking in bad weather. And my kid/dog sit nice and dry under the hood of the cargo area.
- jojobas 3y agoSome weather will get your poncho tightly wrapped around your head. "Deadliest catch" style overalls are more fitting, and it's not the best to walk around in. I've ridden motorbikes for many years in a subtropical city, had all the right rain gear and it still sucked to ride in the rare +5°C rain. Even southern Germany gets snow and icy rain, good luck clothing for that.
- HPsquared 3y agoSomeone needs to make an active air-conditioned suit for motorbike riders that uses electricity from the bike. Edit: of course it already exists: https://newatlas.com/entrosys-motorcycle-airconditioner-review/30585/ https://newatlas.com/entrosys-motorcycle-airconditioner-revi...
- jojobas 3y agoThat's a gimmick, these were never sold in any quantity. If it's hot and humid there's just no way to ride in appropriately protective gear. South East Asia solution is to ride in shorts and flip-flops, with expected results in even minor falls.
- HPsquared 3y agoMaybe something more like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_cooling_and_ventilation_garment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_cooling_and_ventilation...
- tcfhgj 3y agoI live in southern Germany and have no problems clothing. For rain and wet or very cold conditions I use rain trousers (insulate as well) and often my rain jacket. 5° rain is one of the best rain weather's, because you don't sweat easily just wearing rain cloths above your indoor cloths. A much bigger problem here is cycling paths not being maintained in the winter and salt on the roads.
- JoeAltmaier 3y agoWhere I live, enough clothes for the coldest days (negative tens in F!) means you could not possibly get on a bike.
- eesmith 3y agoWhoever came up with that quote didn't live where tornadoes are common.
- GiveOver 3y agoI found it bizarre that "weather-independence" was one of the least important metrics. I commuted by bike for years and it's miserable in wind and rain. The numbers of fellow cyclists varied massively depending on the weather.
- mkl 3y agoBike ≠ e-bike. My e-bike makes commuting in teeming rain kind of fun - with appropriate rain gear only my hands and face get wet, and there's very little physical effort. Trying to do the same ride on a pushbike is indeed miserable.
- jacquesm 3y agoI'm about as enthusiastic a bike user as you'll find but I've never found 'rain kind of fun', especially not on longer distances (>40 km, my 'regular' road trip is 64K there and back for 128 in total). The road gets slippery, other people (in cars) pay less attention and have less visibility, you get soaked and if you're not careful you can get undercooled even on relatively warm days. Cold weather: no problem, wet weather: if I can avoid it I will.
- mkl 3y agoI'm talking about a 10 minute 4km commute, not a multi-hour trek (which doesn't sound fun to me in any weather). I really do find it fun, and I really do only get my hands and face wet. Gumboots, rain pants, rain jacket, backpack cover, helmet cover: no way to get soaked or even damp.
- senectus1 3y agoIn Perth Western Australia my commute is about 25km. and at best a little over an hour to ride by bike down the bike paths along side the freeway. today it was 25 deg C at 6am and over 32 deg C at 5pm when I would have to ride home. I'll ride it every now and again, but honestly its too much to do on a regular basis.
- deleted 3y ago
- rambambram 3y ago> As Ars' John Timmer noted in a cargo bike review from the fall, cargo bikes are somewhat specialized for what they do—but because of their build, they're definitely second bikes. Doesn't have to be. What about one bicycle and one bicycle cart (that's also a bicycle caravan) instead of a bicycle and another cargobike!? Like the cart/caravan from https://www.theredpanther.org https://www.theredpanther.org (shameless plug)
- newaccount74 3y agoRiding a long john cargo bike is much nicer than riding a bike with a trailer. Cargo bikes ride almost like a normal bike, it's easier to navigate narrow passages, and parking your cargo bike is easier than parking a bike with trailer. I can walk my cargo bike through doors on my own, it is almost impossible when riding a bike with a trailer. It takes me 3x as long to get the trailer outside, attach it to my bike, seat the kids etc. than it does with my cargo bike. Trailer does have bigger capacity, so it is nicer for extended trips. But for everyday riding, a cargo bike is 100x better.
- rambambram 3y agoTrue, but the article is explicitly talking about having one bicycle and another cargobike as extra. Not everybody has the money for that, or needs a cargobike everyday of the week. I for one wouldn't move kids in a bicycle trailer, so a cargobike for kids is better.
- k3liutZu 3y agoI might have like a cargo bike if I didn't like on top of a hill. And if I didn't have 6 months of cold dark weather with snow / ice covering the roads.
- timeon 3y ago> snow / ice covering the roads. Ice is not problem with studded tires. And isn't snow is usually plowed from the roads so cars or bikes could pass?
- Zanfa 3y agoThey might be for major roads in major cities eventually, but most of the streets are pretty terrible for anything smaller than a car whenever it’s snows periodically.
- jojobas 3y agoHave you ever tried cycling in actual Winter, with ice, snow and slush?
- AlecSchueler 3y agoJust search "Netherlands bicycle snowing" on Google Images to see how normal it is. The top results show both children and the elderly cycling on ice and slush and snow.
- okwhateverdude 3y agoYes it is normal here, but it is also hilariously fraught with low-stakes peril. Dumpert always has vids of people busting their ass trying to make a turn or they hit an icy patch every year. I've had a couple of falls on ice here and I am not confident of my resilience long term doing that as I get older. So I avoid biking when it is frozen. But since that is only like a week or two out of the year, it is no big deal
- BytesAndGears 3y ago
- paganel 3y ago[flagged]
- stinos 3y agoSure, but the land use for donkeys' housing and especially for their food makes it so that it doesn't quite scale. Unlike bicycles.
- paganel 3y agoI don't need scaling, why do we need to "scale" everything? Scaling (and the efficiency that comes with it) is part of the problem, as a matter of fact, it's what normal people actually hate when they see articles about stuff like these bike gizmos, they know that they target scaling- and efficiency-obsessed tech guys, guys that have created much of the problems that most of the normal people are now in. It's the "Google bus guys in San Francisco" situation extended slowly and surely to the whole planet. Normal people hate that simple and enjoyable stuff like bikes were until not that long ago have become a topic of interest for tech-oriented media entities like Ars Technica.
- stinos 3y agoI don't need scaling Well, ok, then I simply misunderstood the intent of your comment. Normal people hate I have no idea where those claims come from, or what you mean with normal people. Source? E.g. wouldn't normal people rather just ignore articles about stuff they do not care about instead of hating it?
- paganel 3y ago> I have no idea where those claims come from, or what you mean with normal people. Source? See the reaction to all those speed limits zones in the UK. Or, more generally, see the reaction to all this ecologist non-sense imposed on us here in the EU from top to down (and being forced to using bikes instead of our cars is part of that process). As a matter of fact just now there are some very angry people throwing stuff at the bureaucrats in Brussels on account of their environment-related nonsense directives.
- djrobstep 3y agoOne thing I did not appreciate until I got an electric cargo bike is how they are faster than cars for typical city journeys if there’s any level of traffic. I live in a city of 5 million people and if I needed to get across town in a hurry I’d take my cargo bike, not my car. My cargo bike usually beats the google maps car estimate by about 20%.
- genman 3y agoHow is the air quality in your city? Can you use some road network outside of the main traffic lanes?
- Lio 3y agoI've seen this study before that claims that air pollution is worse for car drivers[1][2] than cyclists and pedestrians. If that's true a cargo bike is going to be a win over driving if air quality is an issue for you. Take with a pinch of salt though, I can also see counter studies[3]. 1. https://www.slideshare.net/JamesTate22/exposure-to-the-trafficrelated-air-pollutants-particle-number-and-no2-when-commuting-by-modes-walk-cycle-car-and-bus https://www.slideshare.net/JamesTate22/exposure-to-the-traff... 2. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969701007586 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00489... 3. https://www.eauc.org.uk/cyclists_on_busy_roads_ https://www.eauc.org.uk/cyclists_on_busy_roads_
- GuB-42 3y agoIn older cars without cabin filters, it makes sense that air pollution is at least as bad inside the car as it is outside, it is, after all, the same air. But modern cars usually have cabin filters, which, if good enough, well maintained, and leak-free, should result in a significant improvement. I know Tesla made it a marketing point for the Model X, but I believe all cars built in the last decade or two have at least some kind of filtration.
- genman 3y agoOn top of this you can close the circulation in cars. Something I often do and something that is not possible when cycling. I can choose routes that don't pass major city intersections but if that is not the case then it is clear disadvantage for cyclists. Electric cars will tremendously improve the situation and make more routes viable for cyclists.
- gitanovic 3y agoThat's bollocks, it's more that the vast majority of people who buys a cargo bike is a bike enthusiast to start with. Case in point I am not, I was convinced to buy a cargo bike, and I still like my car very much, particularly when it's rainy and/or cold Still like the bike in warm summer days, but in winter... only car
- lucioperca 3y agoI use my cargo bicycle everyday because I never bothered to buy a car after Uni and cars where I live would be a major pain because of traffic and parking near my flat. I do have car sharing though. I would not consider me a bike enthusiast, but I like to get my metabolism going in the morning compared to car travel. Weather is no problem, you just need to dress accordingly. Many people in my city do cycle everyday. I play basketball twice a week and 80% of the players arrive by bicycle.
- jojobas 3y agoWhat's the coldest your city gets?
- tcfhgj 3y agoMy case -20°C. Prefer that to 30°C +
- lucioperca 3y ago-10°C
- genman 3y agoMany people live in places where weather is not favorable. Also in your example these are people who actively prefer physically active lifestyle - it's called selection bias, and I bet that they don't have long commute. Nothing against bicycles here, just pointing out that it is not a solution for everyone.
- 3y ago
- lucioperca 3y agoI use my cargo bicycle every day for everything even if I would not need it. The cargo use case is for carrying children around (e.g. kindergarden) or shopping. I do not have a car, but I have another bicycle but I use that on very few occasions like train travel.
- ekianjo 3y agogotta love meaningless lines in these charts linking together variables that have nothing to do with each others
- TheChaplain 3y agoBicycles are good, if yours don't get stolen while you're in the supermarket to get salad dressing.
- RALaBarge 3y agoBicycles are good, but America lacks any real infrastructure and I'm not foolish enough to share the road with cars.
- Nullabillity 3y agoI've never had a bird take a shit inside of my car. It's also pretty neat how you can lock the cargo space.
- readthenotes1 3y agoLocking doesn't deter thieves in several locales ...
- egman_ekki 3y agotell me you don’t have a convertible without telling me you don’t have a convertible
- Nullabillity 3y agoSure, I guess? A roofless car seems like a really dumb idea.
- boffinAudio 3y agoRecently moved into the city (Vienna) from the country, finding myself in the delightful situation that I can walk everywhere I need to go - groceries, entertainment, shopping, etc. I simply don't need a car. I find myself actively yearning to ride my bicycle everywhere. So I think also just changing your environment to a more walking-friendly one is another great way to ditch the car. What a pity so few in the Western world can experience the delights of their own self-locomotion being sufficient to their daily needs ..
- wepple 3y ago> What a pity so few in the Western world can experience the delights of their own self-locomotion being sufficient to their daily needs .. Most countries do indeed have cities and high-population areas that support this, and many folks do experience it. I lived that life for ~15 years, and it was truly great at the time. Turns out I started disliking the sheer density, and prefer to be slightly more self sufficient.
- quickthrower2 3y agoI found living in London for a short while feels like a prison of sorts.( It is amazing of course. Not knocking the place over all!) But it is a subtle effect but the lack of walking through a field every now and then (not a over populated park!) and seeing a horizon is something I missed deeply in the subconscious. Some cities especially near the ocean or just less dense etc. are not as encaging. Also walking everywhere is good and bad. Getting a lot of shopping home a car is much better at. Maybe one of those cargo bikes had I know of its existence would have done the trick! But walking for everything can be tiring. Depends on your health level.
- genman 3y agoVienna is a nice city when it comes to the public transport and city planning. Unfortunately it is not universally true in Europe.
- boh 3y agoI feel like if you make a study with any conclusions, some article will cite it as fact.
- readthenotes1 3y agoYou can make a good study about that...
- JoeAltmaier 3y agoThese things love to quote stats from some of the flattest places on earth.
- brudgers 3y agoFor context the highest point in the Netherlands is 322m and the highest point in San Francisco is only 40m less at 283m.
- ycombinete 3y agoI don’t think that says anything useful about the topology of the places relative to cycling. What’s the average ascent on a 10km cycle around San Francisco? My guess is that it’s something like 20 meters in Amsterdam.
- M95D 3y agoI wish I had the space to keep it.