5 ms·

A little closer to finding what became Moses Schönfinkel (2021)

72 points by RafelMri 3y ago

Y_Y 3y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago
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- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
GoodUser77 3y ago
Good story and analysis
msla 3y ago
[flagged]
- baruz 3y ago
  Why not comment on the (rather interesting IMO) content rather than on the personality of the person writing? No one is going to change their mind based on your snark.
  - mrkeen 3y ago
    I liked the part of the content where Schönfinkel: > If well designed (as I hope the Wolfram Language is!) computational language has a certain clean, formal structure. But human natural language is full of messiness, which has to be untangled by natural language understanding—as we’ve done for so many years for Wolfram|Alpha, always ultimately translating to our computational language, the Wolfram Language. > But without the notion of an underlying computational language, people tend to feel the need to search endlessly for formal structure in human natural language. And, yes, some exists. But—as we see all the time in actually doing practical natural language understanding for Wolfram|Alpha—there’s a giant tail that seems to utterly explode any all-encompassing formal theory. Oh nevermind.
- Blackthorn 3y ago
  Key difference being Wolfram actually has achievements to his name.
- Guthur 3y ago
  So the guy has crazy ideas and doesn't hate himself, what's the problem? Of all the f'd up people in the world this guy seems very much on the "so what" end of the spectrum.
max_ 3y ago
Anyone know of any good introductory resources on combinators? Stephen Wolfram's book seems too advanced for me.
- robinhouston 3y ago
  That depends rather on your background. I found Schönfinkel's original paper to be very accessible. Perhaps you will too, if you know a little old-fashioned logic. http://sshieh.web.wesleyan.edu/wescourses/2013f/388/e-texts/Schonfinkel%20On%20the%20Building%20Blocks%20of%20Mathematical%20Logic.pdf http://sshieh.web.wesleyan.edu/wescourses/2013f/388/e-texts/...
  - eduhetxub 3y ago
    Quite frankly, the Wikipedia page should tell anyone everything they could want to know (for starters). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SKI_combinator_calculus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SKI_combinator_calculus
  - QuesnayJr 3y ago
    I took your advice, and you're right, it is very readable. Seeing it in its original context also helps me understand why a logician would want to invent it.
- denotational 3y ago
  I read Lambda-Calculus and Combinators: An Introduction by J Roger Hindley as an undergraduate and found it was very accessible.
- gonzus 3y ago
  I would highly recommend To Mock a Mockingbird by Raymond Smullyan. It will also introduce you (if you are not already aware) to the wonderful world of Smullyan's books.
- zellyn 3y ago
  I would start with lambda calculus. If you pick the right intro video, they'll stray into combinators: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VQ382QG-y4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VQ382QG-y4 is very good.
thriftwy 3y ago
https://clck.ru/38WW9M https://clck.ru/38WW9M This is where you are supposed to search Soviet WWII personnel and I guess that some of these documents come from here. https://clck.ru/38WWAQ https://clck.ru/38WWAQ However, this documents lists a different address for Grigorii Schonfinkel! "Садовая-Триумфальная, д. 2 кв. 12" (Sadovaya-Triumphalnaya 2, apt. 12) What's interesting about it that it is usually addressed as "Тверская 30". Maybe not this building after all? Or there was a reason why it was addressed that way. https://retromap.ru/1319377_55.769246,37.605020 https://retromap.ru/1319377_55.769246,37.605020 - Looks like the address actually existed back then, and wasn't an alias of Tverskaya 30.
- myth_drannon 3y ago
  Yes, looks like Grigory's WWII documents came from pamyat-naroda Also Yandex Archive started scanning/transcribing documents (even handwritten! powered by TrOCR model I guess?). I found there more documents on Grigori and left comments on the article itself.
jekude 3y ago
I recently attempted to make a reference implementation and walkthrough of Schönfinkel's original paper [1]. I found the English translation (by Stefan Bauer-Mengelberg) to be quite readable, highly recommend! [1] https://github.com/planetlambert/combinator https://github.com/planetlambert/combinator
dark-star 3y ago
I vividly remember our teacher at university explaining "currying" in Lambda calculus and afterwards consistenly calling it "Schönfinkeln", which I think only works in German but sounds much more beautiful than "currying" :-D
- awesomelvin 3y ago
  Ha, my German professor did that too (Tübingen!). Also, I've heard the English equivalent "Schönfinkeling" sometimes.
  - dark-star 3y ago
    Indeed, Mike Sperber and Volker Klaeren in Tübingen :) What a small world it is
KingOfCoders 3y ago
I find it amazing how often in these kind of stories Goettingen and Hilbert come up in that time frame.

72 points by RafelMri 3y ago

Y_Y 3y ago

[flagged]

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

GoodUser77 3y ago

Good story and analysis

msla 3y ago

[flagged]

baruz 3y ago
Why not comment on the (rather interesting IMO) content rather than on the personality of the person writing? No one is going to change their mind based on your snark.
- mrkeen 3y ago
  I liked the part of the content where Schönfinkel: > If well designed (as I hope the Wolfram Language is!) computational language has a certain clean, formal structure. But human natural language is full of messiness, which has to be untangled by natural language understanding—as we’ve done for so many years for Wolfram|Alpha, always ultimately translating to our computational language, the Wolfram Language. > But without the notion of an underlying computational language, people tend to feel the need to search endlessly for formal structure in human natural language. And, yes, some exists. But—as we see all the time in actually doing practical natural language understanding for Wolfram|Alpha—there’s a giant tail that seems to utterly explode any all-encompassing formal theory. Oh nevermind.
Blackthorn 3y ago
Key difference being Wolfram actually has achievements to his name.
Guthur 3y ago
So the guy has crazy ideas and doesn't hate himself, what's the problem? Of all the f'd up people in the world this guy seems very much on the "so what" end of the spectrum.

max_ 3y ago

Anyone know of any good introductory resources on combinators? Stephen Wolfram's book seems too advanced for me.

robinhouston 3y ago
That depends rather on your background. I found Schönfinkel's original paper to be very accessible. Perhaps you will too, if you know a little old-fashioned logic. http://sshieh.web.wesleyan.edu/wescourses/2013f/388/e-texts/Schonfinkel%20On%20the%20Building%20Blocks%20of%20Mathematical%20Logic.pdf http://sshieh.web.wesleyan.edu/wescourses/2013f/388/e-texts/...
- eduhetxub 3y ago
  Quite frankly, the Wikipedia page should tell anyone everything they could want to know (for starters). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SKI_combinator_calculus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SKI_combinator_calculus
- QuesnayJr 3y ago
  I took your advice, and you're right, it is very readable. Seeing it in its original context also helps me understand why a logician would want to invent it.
denotational 3y ago
I read Lambda-Calculus and Combinators: An Introduction by J Roger Hindley as an undergraduate and found it was very accessible.
gonzus 3y ago
I would highly recommend To Mock a Mockingbird by Raymond Smullyan. It will also introduce you (if you are not already aware) to the wonderful world of Smullyan's books.
zellyn 3y ago
I would start with lambda calculus. If you pick the right intro video, they'll stray into combinators: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VQ382QG-y4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VQ382QG-y4 is very good.

thriftwy 3y ago

https://clck.ru/38WW9M https://clck.ru/38WW9M This is where you are supposed to search Soviet WWII personnel and I guess that some of these documents come from here. https://clck.ru/38WWAQ https://clck.ru/38WWAQ However, this documents lists a different address for Grigorii Schonfinkel! "Садовая-Триумфальная, д. 2 кв. 12" (Sadovaya-Triumphalnaya 2, apt. 12) What's interesting about it that it is usually addressed as "Тверская 30". Maybe not this building after all? Or there was a reason why it was addressed that way. https://retromap.ru/1319377_55.769246,37.605020 https://retromap.ru/1319377_55.769246,37.605020 - Looks like the address actually existed back then, and wasn't an alias of Tverskaya 30.

myth_drannon 3y ago
Yes, looks like Grigory's WWII documents came from pamyat-naroda Also Yandex Archive started scanning/transcribing documents (even handwritten! powered by TrOCR model I guess?). I found there more documents on Grigori and left comments on the article itself.

jekude 3y ago

I recently attempted to make a reference implementation and walkthrough of Schönfinkel's original paper [1]. I found the English translation (by Stefan Bauer-Mengelberg) to be quite readable, highly recommend! [1] https://github.com/planetlambert/combinator https://github.com/planetlambert/combinator

dark-star 3y ago

I vividly remember our teacher at university explaining "currying" in Lambda calculus and afterwards consistenly calling it "Schönfinkeln", which I think only works in German but sounds much more beautiful than "currying" :-D

awesomelvin 3y ago
Ha, my German professor did that too (Tübingen!). Also, I've heard the English equivalent "Schönfinkeling" sometimes.
- dark-star 3y ago
  Indeed, Mike Sperber and Volker Klaeren in Tübingen :) What a small world it is

KingOfCoders 3y ago

I find it amazing how often in these kind of stories Goettingen and Hilbert come up in that time frame.