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> When studied, I think scientists will find that certain mystical practices induce these pivotal mental states, at least in a percentage of the population. Th

by p-e-w 3y ago

> When studied, I think scientists will find that certain mystical practices induce these pivotal mental states, at least in a percentage of the population. That's useless if those "mystical practices" don't consist of precise, actionable instructions, whose outcome can be measured in a way that eliminates expectation bias. The standard approach seems to be to give relatively vague guidelines for what to do, then if following those doesn't lead to any positive result, claim that the student either misapplied them, or didn't try hard enough, or tried too hard, or it wasn't their time, etc. etc. Which is factually indistinguishable from "there's nothing to it but smoke and mirrors".

dijksterhuis 3y ago
Preface: I’m into soto Zen Buddhism stuff but by no means any sort of expert. Still probably a rank amateur tbh compared to others. Massive grains of salt required. Brad Warner is a good person to look up on YouTube to find out more. > That's useless if those "mystical practices" don't consist of precise, actionable instructions, whose outcome can be measured in a way that eliminates expectation bias. They do and they can. Instructions: 1. Sit on a cushion in a specific posture. 2. Think the thought of not thinking. 3. Do it every day. I harm people around me when I don’t do this. I am being asshole. When I do it, I’m less of an asshole. I am being not-asshole. People say so. Even when I start practicing and don’t tell anyone (I’m a serial relapser when it comes to the cushion). My expectation of “being not asshole” is always wildly different to the reality of it too. That’s also part of the exercise/work. Learning to not pay attention to my own expectations. Usually they’re wrong. > The standard approach seems to be to give relatively vague guidelines for what to do, then if following those doesn't lead to any positive result, claim that the student either misapplied them, or didn't try hard enough, or tried too hard, or it wasn't their time, etc. etc. Yeah. The vague guidelines are the point. It is part of the practice. It’s not the student’s fault. Sometimes people just need to practice longer than others. So teachers say things like: that’s just the content of your zazen. Which basically means: Keep sitting on the cushion. Keep doing the work. The work is never finished. Phrases like that are meant to be a form of encouragement or reminder. > Which is factually indistinguishable from "there's nothing to it but smoke and mirrors". “Magic” is just stuff people don't understand yet. Whether that’s a good or a bad thing depends on individual perspective.

by p-e-w 3y ago

dijksterhuis 3y ago

Preface: I’m into soto Zen Buddhism stuff but by no means any sort of expert. Still probably a rank amateur tbh compared to others. Massive grains of salt required. Brad Warner is a good person to look up on YouTube to find out more. > That's useless if those "mystical practices" don't consist of precise, actionable instructions, whose outcome can be measured in a way that eliminates expectation bias. They do and they can. Instructions: 1. Sit on a cushion in a specific posture. 2. Think the thought of not thinking. 3. Do it every day. I harm people around me when I don’t do this. I am being asshole. When I do it, I’m less of an asshole. I am being not-asshole. People say so. Even when I start practicing and don’t tell anyone (I’m a serial relapser when it comes to the cushion). My expectation of “being not asshole” is always wildly different to the reality of it too. That’s also part of the exercise/work. Learning to not pay attention to my own expectations. Usually they’re wrong. > The standard approach seems to be to give relatively vague guidelines for what to do, then if following those doesn't lead to any positive result, claim that the student either misapplied them, or didn't try hard enough, or tried too hard, or it wasn't their time, etc. etc. Yeah. The vague guidelines are the point. It is part of the practice. It’s not the student’s fault. Sometimes people just need to practice longer than others. So teachers say things like: that’s just the content of your zazen. Which basically means: Keep sitting on the cushion. Keep doing the work. The work is never finished. Phrases like that are meant to be a form of encouragement or reminder. > Which is factually indistinguishable from "there's nothing to it but smoke and mirrors". “Magic” is just stuff people don't understand yet. Whether that’s a good or a bad thing depends on individual perspective.