3 ms·

An ELI5 for the peasants would be nice.

rednerrus 3y ago
> In the same way that traumatic experiences can trigger post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) or post-traumatic growth (Tedeschi, 1999), we hypothesize that intense periods of psychological crisis can serve to kindle conditions for major, potentially lasting, psychological change, pivotable either towards illness or wellness (Figure 1). They're saying that with the use of psychedelics you can create super states in your mind.
- ryandv 3y ago
  Is that what it says? Emphasis mine, > _Inspired by_ research with serotonin 2A receptor agonist psychedelics, we highlight how activity at this particular receptor can robustly and reliably induce pivotal mental states, but we argue that _the capacity for pivotal mental states is an inherent property of the human brain itself._
- pstuart 3y ago
  Illness seems obvious from PTSD, I'm curious about wellness -- as in, can this be used as a tool for healing in a straightforward manner. My experience with psychedelics in my youth was reckless recreation, and in my not-youth I'm fascinated by how it can be a tool to be a better me. I have a healthy enough respect for the medicine now to not just jump in willy nilly and it would be wonderful to learn if there are "new tricks" that the properly prepared psychonaut can put in play.
- nonrandomstring 3y ago
  Be careful what you wish for with this sort of thing. The Matrix has obviously become a cliche, but it's modern telling of Plato's cave allegory is handy. Imagine if I could give you a "healing" pill. But I'll warn you, in my best Laurence Fishburne voice, that when you wake up you will see the world exactly as it really is, no more, no less. And even if you go back in the cave you won't be able to unsee it or relate to other cave-dwelling people. There's a reason 99 percent of us take that blue pill every day. We like to have friends, go to dinner parties, wear acceptable clothes and say acceptable things. Trauma sets you apart. That's the best way I can put it. PTG is a 20 or 30 year process of adapting to so-called "super powers". A movie they never made is "What ever happened to Will Hunting?" After Matt Damon hugged Robin Williams and drove off into the sunset... what came next? Drug abuse, alcoholism? A 20 year gambling spree in Las Vegas? Or just endless fun with Minnie Driver? I'm not against recreational psychedelics, indeed I take the Bill Hicks view that they should be mandatory for some :) But to use them as a "pivotal" therapeutic shortcut to "wellness" doesn't seem to add up in my view. You'll still have to do "the work", sooner or later.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    but it's a ladder where the first rung is too high up to reach without the help. you still gotta climb the ladder and do the work, but without the help, you can't even try to climb the ladder in the first place.
    - nonrandomstring 3y ago
      You make a good point. Yes, some people can really benefit from a helping hand onto the ladder. But I'd hate to encourage anyone to climb on, only to see them freeze in fear, and get stuck when the only way is up. I think there are three things one should always bring to psychedelics or potentially life changing traumatic experiences - some experience - a question - a friend
      - fragmede 3y ago
        my opinion is that a qualified trained trip sitter is needed, not just a friend.
readthenotes1 3y ago
Hazing rituals and similar stresses have been used historically to bind people into a group. Pavlov's research with the salivating dog was part of an larger experiment to learn how to brainwash people. Not surprisingly, physical and psychological stress were found to put people into a highly receptive state where they could be taught new beliefs and behaviors. This paper claims that some psychedelics can mimic that stress to put people into a similarly receptive state. Further, it says that the same underlying brain chemistry comes into play. (At least that is how I understood it)
ryandv 3y ago
I will take a layman's crack at it. The paper discusses how crises and times of high stress and/or prolonged periods of social isolation, sleep deprivation, etc. can precipitate a psychological state (with accompanying neurochemical phenomena which I cannot speak to but appear to be centered around serotonin) that can foster rapid psychological transformation and re-arrangement of one's self-concept, their core beliefs about themselves and others, and their ultimate framing of and relationship to the world. A "resurrection." Under suboptimal conditions it can lead to a descent into psychosis. I am reminded of Jung's own brushes with such states as chronicled in the Red Book.

> In the same way that traumatic experiences can trigger post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) or post-traumatic growth (Tedeschi, 1999), we hypothesize that intense periods of psychological crisis can serve to kindle conditions for major, potentially lasting, psychological change, pivotable either towards illness or wellness (Figure 1). They're saying that with the use of psychedelics you can create super states in your mind.

ryandv 3y ago
Is that what it says? Emphasis mine, > _Inspired by_ research with serotonin 2A receptor agonist psychedelics, we highlight how activity at this particular receptor can robustly and reliably induce pivotal mental states, but we argue that _the capacity for pivotal mental states is an inherent property of the human brain itself._
pstuart 3y ago
Illness seems obvious from PTSD, I'm curious about wellness -- as in, can this be used as a tool for healing in a straightforward manner. My experience with psychedelics in my youth was reckless recreation, and in my not-youth I'm fascinated by how it can be a tool to be a better me. I have a healthy enough respect for the medicine now to not just jump in willy nilly and it would be wonderful to learn if there are "new tricks" that the properly prepared psychonaut can put in play.
nonrandomstring 3y ago
Be careful what you wish for with this sort of thing. The Matrix has obviously become a cliche, but it's modern telling of Plato's cave allegory is handy. Imagine if I could give you a "healing" pill. But I'll warn you, in my best Laurence Fishburne voice, that when you wake up you will see the world exactly as it really is, no more, no less. And even if you go back in the cave you won't be able to unsee it or relate to other cave-dwelling people. There's a reason 99 percent of us take that blue pill every day. We like to have friends, go to dinner parties, wear acceptable clothes and say acceptable things. Trauma sets you apart. That's the best way I can put it. PTG is a 20 or 30 year process of adapting to so-called "super powers". A movie they never made is "What ever happened to Will Hunting?" After Matt Damon hugged Robin Williams and drove off into the sunset... what came next? Drug abuse, alcoholism? A 20 year gambling spree in Las Vegas? Or just endless fun with Minnie Driver? I'm not against recreational psychedelics, indeed I take the Bill Hicks view that they should be mandatory for some :) But to use them as a "pivotal" therapeutic shortcut to "wellness" doesn't seem to add up in my view. You'll still have to do "the work", sooner or later.
- fragmede 3y ago
  but it's a ladder where the first rung is too high up to reach without the help. you still gotta climb the ladder and do the work, but without the help, you can't even try to climb the ladder in the first place.
  - nonrandomstring 3y ago
    You make a good point. Yes, some people can really benefit from a helping hand onto the ladder. But I'd hate to encourage anyone to climb on, only to see them freeze in fear, and get stuck when the only way is up. I think there are three things one should always bring to psychedelics or potentially life changing traumatic experiences - some experience - a question - a friend
    - fragmede 3y ago
      my opinion is that a qualified trained trip sitter is needed, not just a friend.

readthenotes1 3y ago

Hazing rituals and similar stresses have been used historically to bind people into a group. Pavlov's research with the salivating dog was part of an larger experiment to learn how to brainwash people. Not surprisingly, physical and psychological stress were found to put people into a highly receptive state where they could be taught new beliefs and behaviors. This paper claims that some psychedelics can mimic that stress to put people into a similarly receptive state. Further, it says that the same underlying brain chemistry comes into play. (At least that is how I understood it)

ryandv 3y ago

I will take a layman's crack at it. The paper discusses how crises and times of high stress and/or prolonged periods of social isolation, sleep deprivation, etc. can precipitate a psychological state (with accompanying neurochemical phenomena which I cannot speak to but appear to be centered around serotonin) that can foster rapid psychological transformation and re-arrangement of one's self-concept, their core beliefs about themselves and others, and their ultimate framing of and relationship to the world. A "resurrection." Under suboptimal conditions it can lead to a descent into psychosis. I am reminded of Jung's own brushes with such states as chronicled in the Red Book.