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> Our problem is our culture of conformity, we even have a word for it The Law of Jante[1] I think in Australia this is known as cutting down the tall poppies.

> Our problem is our culture of conformity, we even have a word for it The Law of Jante[1] I think in Australia this is known as cutting down the tall poppies. The presence of this effect in Scandinavia and Anglo-Oceania, places commonly thought of as egalitarian, makes me wonder whether this effect is in any way related to the observation that they have higher gender role self-segregation (particularly Scandinavia) than do less gender-equal countries. > But it was a US program, to do research illegal in the US, NIH funding of gain of function research was only banned from October 2014 - December 2017 by NIH moratorium [1], and might only now be in the process of getting a more general ban [2]. > And there was 0 discussion about this. We were called crazy, evil and all kinds of words. We were dehumanized, just because we wanted a sane discussion. I agree. Ad hominems make really easy soundbites, and both the left and right media have been using them for a while now. > Don't try to blame China, they're a dictatorship acting like expected. No. I'll blame them too. It's a choice that people make political cultures that preference scapegoating and reaction instead of forethought and the precautionary principle. *If* COVID did come from WIV, then they are to blame. They were under no particular existential pressure. Everyone working for WIV should have been trained in good technique. Protocols should have been in place to identify and inform on any accidental release. And if they played fast and loose with safety that's on them. > Fauci smirking behind Trump on press conferences disgusts me. People make odd faces or suddenly think of something inappropriate to the moment all the time. [1] - https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099%2818%2930006-9/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... [2] - https://www.science.org/content/article/house-approves-ban-gain-function-pathogen-research https://www.science.org/content/article/house-approves-ban-g...

worksonmine 3y ago
But you don't, the only reason we're even discussing China now is because you brought it up as "but China!" when I want Fauci and Daszak to get consequences for keeping quiet and lying about what they knew early in the investigation. Here are your exact words: > We'd actually know better if China, not the US, but China, had been more forthcoming as to what exactly happened at the Wuhan Institute of Virology You can think China is equally responsible, they are not mutually exclusive views, but it's not really a response to my statement is it? It's shifting the blame. Fauci and Daszak denied any possibility of a lab leak, and should be prosecuted. The cynic in me even assumes this was outsourced to VIW in an attempt to cover up their tracks if shit hit the fan, don't fall for it.
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  What did they know that was pertinent? That the NIH had funded some gain of function research at WIV? What does that have to do with dealing with a current coronavirus outbreak? > Fauci and Daszak denied any possibility of a lab leak, and should be prosecuted. For what? Giving their opinion? WIV was specializing in this research. For very good reasons given that China was the source of SARS-CoV-1, and has a host of other animal populations and animal-to-human transfer scenarios (e.g. the Wuhan market where live wildlife is kept in close contact with humans for consumption) that the US does not have. Why not hire them to do what they are better able to do than any US institution?

worksonmine 3y ago

But you don't, the only reason we're even discussing China now is because you brought it up as "but China!" when I want Fauci and Daszak to get consequences for keeping quiet and lying about what they knew early in the investigation. Here are your exact words: > We'd actually know better if China, not the US, but China, had been more forthcoming as to what exactly happened at the Wuhan Institute of Virology You can think China is equally responsible, they are not mutually exclusive views, but it's not really a response to my statement is it? It's shifting the blame. Fauci and Daszak denied any possibility of a lab leak, and should be prosecuted. The cynic in me even assumes this was outsourced to VIW in an attempt to cover up their tracks if shit hit the fan, don't fall for it.

anonymouskimmer 3y ago
What did they know that was pertinent? That the NIH had funded some gain of function research at WIV? What does that have to do with dealing with a current coronavirus outbreak? > Fauci and Daszak denied any possibility of a lab leak, and should be prosecuted. For what? Giving their opinion? WIV was specializing in this research. For very good reasons given that China was the source of SARS-CoV-1, and has a host of other animal populations and animal-to-human transfer scenarios (e.g. the Wuhan market where live wildlife is kept in close contact with humans for consumption) that the US does not have. Why not hire them to do what they are better able to do than any US institution?