8 ms·

Microsoft says goodbye to Windows Live brand

81 points by kefs 14y ago

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
Confusion again, but hopefully for the better. So we've gone from Hotmail, to MSN Hotmail, to Windows Live Mail, to Windows Live Hotmail. Where now? Windows Hotmail?
- Zarel 14y ago
  It appears to be branded "Microsoft Hotmail" or just "Hotmail" now. I think this is an improvement.
0x0 14y ago
The most interesting part here is that they seem to embrace XMPP for their MSN service!
- jacabado 14y ago
  They already did for some time, I am not sure if they've done in the scope of this rebrand, it is surely an welcome addition. [1] Don't expect that it just works with any XMPP client as it uses a proprietary authentication mechanism "very similar to Facebook" OAUTH2.[1] More popular clients have already integrated it. That's why Windows devs drink. [1] http://blog.process-one.net/details_on_msns_xmpp_server/ http://blog.process-one.net/details_on_msns_xmpp_server/
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
credo 14y ago
In early 2005, before Microsoft announced the Windows Live brand, I was a Principal at Microsoft (and was told to keep the branding information a secret - not even my direct reports (senior dev leads) could be told about it) At that time, it seemed like a big joke to me (because a lot of senior people seemed very excited about the changes - even though it just amounted to renaming MSN as Windows Live) I suspect that a new crop of senior leaders at Microsoft are now talking abut how excited they at the latest change.
- yajoe 14y ago
  I feel the same way. I like that they are consolidating, but part of this just feels like a new coat of paint. Further, I didn't see how this announcement fits with the Office365 identities. Are those now going to "Microsoft Accounts" as well? Or are those still Office365 accounts? Can I use Hotmail with them? What's the difference between Hotmail and Exchange Online? Can I migrate back and forth? Unless something radically changed in the last 6 months, the two identity infrastructures are completely separate with one tenuous federation holding them together. And the two groups of products -- consumer and business -- will still be unnecessarily separate.
- jcc80 14y ago
  This happens at small businesses too. And, it's actually a lot sadder because truly nobody cares. At least MS will get some blog posts about people being confused or complaining. Small business execs who are hyped up for a re-branding usually don't even get that.
  - eblume 14y ago
    I work in biotech and this is rampant there - our company changed names three times before we ever had a product (or any revenue at all). These were not small name changes, either - they redecorated the entire office to the new company colors each time.
    - ww520 14y ago
      Somebody needs to justify his paycheck.
      - eblume 14y ago
        Too true - we also had a marketing department for an entire year before we had said product. Now I certainly understand that you need a marketing department before the product launches - but consider that at a time when development was in full swing (about three quarters before launch) we had two software developers and three marketing people.
marcusf 14y ago
I must say I love the marketing focus of this announcement together with the one last week (or so) about just having three versions of Windows 8. Feels like a new kind of Microsoft.
- MartinCron 14y ago
  I agree. This is what having healthy market pressure on all sides does. It makes me (almost) want to go buy a Windows Phone 7 Phone.
  - bergie 14y ago
    I wanted to think that way as well. But scratch a bit of the surface and you'll find the same old Microsoft, just wearing some lipstick.
ardillamorris 14y ago
Finally something to say "you go Microsoft!" - Windows Live was so DOA that you couldn't make lemonade with it!
webwanderings 14y ago
So does that mean I no longer need to feel guilty for not using my @live.com email account? Microsoft you were "not live" anymore for me when you decided to bring a wall between your Internet services and your Windows XP.
Flemlord 14y ago
I hope nothing happens to Windows Live Writer. It saves me lots of time when blogging.
kmfrk 14y ago
And nothing of value was lost. Seriously, their "Messenger" software was the most emblematic of this. If memory serves, the name of the program in chronological order is: 1. Windows Messenger 2. MSN Messenger 3. Live Messenger 4. Messenger The constant needless iterations of the software - which was basically perfect around MSN Messenger - made it suck so much, because they wanted to cram social gunk into it, add toolbars, and revamp the interface for no goddamn reason that I would willfully give it up and shun digital contact with my friends, since I don't have a Facebook user. This is why Windows users drink.
- josephcooney 14y ago
  nothing of value was lost? There was no mention of Windows Live Writer in the announcement, which saddens me a bit. It is the best piece of software of its kind that I know of for writing blog posts etc.
  - hartez 14y ago
    It was the best piece of blogging software available. Then they did that horrible ribbon redesign and ruined a near-perfect interface.
    - ishansharma 14y ago
      Agreed. I loved using it but ribbon is horrible. Still, it is best on Windows and I hope they do not do anything stupid with it.
    - Encosia 14y ago
      Hit Ctrl-F1 to hide the ribbon.
- lucianof 14y ago
  Your point - that the software was at its peak when it was called MSN Messenger - is exemplified by the fact that most people still call it MSN Messenger. It seems even teens, who've probably never seen this brand out in the wild still call it MSN.
r00fus 14y ago
Good riddance. It's part of the nonsense that makes Microsoft look silly - first it's OLE, then ActiveX then .NET - yes, they're different, I know. However the ability for competitors like Apple to a) stick to brands and b) reuse old company brands (see iBook) when Microsoft is shedding brands like a snake molts is part of why some folks "irrationally" avoid Microsoft. A brand is a promise - when you shed them, you are shedding responsibility to your customers. Microsoft has essentially been unaccountable to it's customers while milking them using it's monopoly cash cows for over a decade. Perhaps they're realizing this won't be the case anymore very soon.
- ComputerGuru 14y ago
  That's a completely different topic. OLE, ActiveX, .NET, MFC, WinRT - they're all entirely different technologies and, as such, have entirely different names. Good idea to keep creating new tech and abandoning it? Maybe not. But it's a complete non-sequitur to compare many techs to many names for the same tech.
  - georgieporgie 14y ago
    OLE, ActiveX, .NET, MFC, WinRT - they're all entirely different technologies Not really. Initial versions of OLE were built on DDE. COM was the next generation of OLE. ActiveX was just COM with a DispInterface (self-describing interface to allow dynamic scripting), so named solely because of a rebranding effort to put an X into everything. .Net was, in my opinion, a ridiculous branding of what was essentially analogous to Win32, and it was only named .Net to align with the Internet craze. MFC was just an app development architecture, so as I understand it it's related in intent to WinForms. Why was COM with a DispInterface called ActiveX, to stand alongside DirectX, when the two had essentially nothing in common with regards to meaning or context, yet MFC and WinForms, which seem related in intent, share absolutely nothing in terms of branding or name? Microsoft's rebranding efforts just confuse everyone: developers, users, and IT.
    - forgotusername 14y ago
      And hey, Windows is just DOS with a bit of new code, and wasn't that just a quick copy of CP/M. Really we should expect Windows 8 to have been called Microsoft CP/M 2012, right? Some of the names you mention are indeed related, but branding and marketing are entirely different beasts, and from a marketing perspective, it may be perfectly logical to give disparate names to tangentially related technologies.
thisisblurry 14y ago
Over the years, the one thing you can almost always count on from Microsoft when it comes to product announcements is their large and mostly useless chart of which version is going to have which features.
pippy 14y ago
This was great till I got to the renaming of Outlook to "Mail app". Outlook still has the largest market share and completely disregards HTML standards. As someone who often has to write templates for Outlook, it's a hassle to get it to work cross platform. I can just imagine the conversations trying to differentiate OS X mail.app and windows 8 Mail app now.
- contextfree 14y ago
  The Metro style Mail app isn't Outlook, it's a Metro style version of Windows Live Mail (which I think used to be called Outlook Express, not sure if it had any real relation to Office Outlook but if it did they diverged long ago). Outlook is still part of Office (and there have been no announcements about Metro style versions of Office apps).
chj 14y ago
for record, rebranding doesn't help windows mobile.
ishansharma 14y ago
5 Years Later: Microsoft Says Goodbye to Microsoft Account. I can bet this will happen.
dakrisht 14y ago
Thank God!
adharmad 14y ago
Every few years, Microsoft seems to dip its toes into single-signon for its services.......only unable to make it work seamlessly and replacing it with yet another solution.

81 points by kefs 14y ago

Confusion again, but hopefully for the better. So we've gone from Hotmail, to MSN Hotmail, to Windows Live Mail, to Windows Live Hotmail. Where now? Windows Hotmail?

Zarel 14y ago
It appears to be branded "Microsoft Hotmail" or just "Hotmail" now. I think this is an improvement.

0x0 14y ago

The most interesting part here is that they seem to embrace XMPP for their MSN service!

jacabado 14y ago
They already did for some time, I am not sure if they've done in the scope of this rebrand, it is surely an welcome addition. [1] Don't expect that it just works with any XMPP client as it uses a proprietary authentication mechanism "very similar to Facebook" OAUTH2.[1] More popular clients have already integrated it. That's why Windows devs drink. [1] http://blog.process-one.net/details_on_msns_xmpp_server/ http://blog.process-one.net/details_on_msns_xmpp_server/
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

credo 14y ago

In early 2005, before Microsoft announced the Windows Live brand, I was a Principal at Microsoft (and was told to keep the branding information a secret - not even my direct reports (senior dev leads) could be told about it) At that time, it seemed like a big joke to me (because a lot of senior people seemed very excited about the changes - even though it just amounted to renaming MSN as Windows Live) I suspect that a new crop of senior leaders at Microsoft are now talking abut how excited they at the latest change.

yajoe 14y ago
I feel the same way. I like that they are consolidating, but part of this just feels like a new coat of paint. Further, I didn't see how this announcement fits with the Office365 identities. Are those now going to "Microsoft Accounts" as well? Or are those still Office365 accounts? Can I use Hotmail with them? What's the difference between Hotmail and Exchange Online? Can I migrate back and forth? Unless something radically changed in the last 6 months, the two identity infrastructures are completely separate with one tenuous federation holding them together. And the two groups of products -- consumer and business -- will still be unnecessarily separate.
jcc80 14y ago
This happens at small businesses too. And, it's actually a lot sadder because truly nobody cares. At least MS will get some blog posts about people being confused or complaining. Small business execs who are hyped up for a re-branding usually don't even get that.
- eblume 14y ago
  I work in biotech and this is rampant there - our company changed names three times before we ever had a product (or any revenue at all). These were not small name changes, either - they redecorated the entire office to the new company colors each time.
  - ww520 14y ago
    Somebody needs to justify his paycheck.
    - eblume 14y ago
      Too true - we also had a marketing department for an entire year before we had said product. Now I certainly understand that you need a marketing department before the product launches - but consider that at a time when development was in full swing (about three quarters before launch) we had two software developers and three marketing people.

marcusf 14y ago

I must say I love the marketing focus of this announcement together with the one last week (or so) about just having three versions of Windows 8. Feels like a new kind of Microsoft.

MartinCron 14y ago
I agree. This is what having healthy market pressure on all sides does. It makes me (almost) want to go buy a Windows Phone 7 Phone.
- bergie 14y ago
  I wanted to think that way as well. But scratch a bit of the surface and you'll find the same old Microsoft, just wearing some lipstick.

ardillamorris 14y ago

Finally something to say "you go Microsoft!" - Windows Live was so DOA that you couldn't make lemonade with it!

webwanderings 14y ago

So does that mean I no longer need to feel guilty for not using my @live.com email account? Microsoft you were "not live" anymore for me when you decided to bring a wall between your Internet services and your Windows XP.

Flemlord 14y ago

I hope nothing happens to Windows Live Writer. It saves me lots of time when blogging.

kmfrk 14y ago

And nothing of value was lost. Seriously, their "Messenger" software was the most emblematic of this. If memory serves, the name of the program in chronological order is: 1. Windows Messenger 2. MSN Messenger 3. Live Messenger 4. Messenger The constant needless iterations of the software - which was basically perfect around MSN Messenger - made it suck so much, because they wanted to cram social gunk into it, add toolbars, and revamp the interface for no goddamn reason that I would willfully give it up and shun digital contact with my friends, since I don't have a Facebook user. This is why Windows users drink.

josephcooney 14y ago
nothing of value was lost? There was no mention of Windows Live Writer in the announcement, which saddens me a bit. It is the best piece of software of its kind that I know of for writing blog posts etc.
- hartez 14y ago
  It was the best piece of blogging software available. Then they did that horrible ribbon redesign and ruined a near-perfect interface.
  - ishansharma 14y ago
    Agreed. I loved using it but ribbon is horrible. Still, it is best on Windows and I hope they do not do anything stupid with it.
  - Encosia 14y ago
    Hit Ctrl-F1 to hide the ribbon.
lucianof 14y ago
Your point - that the software was at its peak when it was called MSN Messenger - is exemplified by the fact that most people still call it MSN Messenger. It seems even teens, who've probably never seen this brand out in the wild still call it MSN.

r00fus 14y ago

Good riddance. It's part of the nonsense that makes Microsoft look silly - first it's OLE, then ActiveX then .NET - yes, they're different, I know. However the ability for competitors like Apple to a) stick to brands and b) reuse old company brands (see iBook) when Microsoft is shedding brands like a snake molts is part of why some folks "irrationally" avoid Microsoft. A brand is a promise - when you shed them, you are shedding responsibility to your customers. Microsoft has essentially been unaccountable to it's customers while milking them using it's monopoly cash cows for over a decade. Perhaps they're realizing this won't be the case anymore very soon.

ComputerGuru 14y ago
That's a completely different topic. OLE, ActiveX, .NET, MFC, WinRT - they're all entirely different technologies and, as such, have entirely different names. Good idea to keep creating new tech and abandoning it? Maybe not. But it's a complete non-sequitur to compare many techs to many names for the same tech.
- georgieporgie 14y ago
  OLE, ActiveX, .NET, MFC, WinRT - they're all entirely different technologies Not really. Initial versions of OLE were built on DDE. COM was the next generation of OLE. ActiveX was just COM with a DispInterface (self-describing interface to allow dynamic scripting), so named solely because of a rebranding effort to put an X into everything. .Net was, in my opinion, a ridiculous branding of what was essentially analogous to Win32, and it was only named .Net to align with the Internet craze. MFC was just an app development architecture, so as I understand it it's related in intent to WinForms. Why was COM with a DispInterface called ActiveX, to stand alongside DirectX, when the two had essentially nothing in common with regards to meaning or context, yet MFC and WinForms, which seem related in intent, share absolutely nothing in terms of branding or name? Microsoft's rebranding efforts just confuse everyone: developers, users, and IT.
  - forgotusername 14y ago
    And hey, Windows is just DOS with a bit of new code, and wasn't that just a quick copy of CP/M. Really we should expect Windows 8 to have been called Microsoft CP/M 2012, right? Some of the names you mention are indeed related, but branding and marketing are entirely different beasts, and from a marketing perspective, it may be perfectly logical to give disparate names to tangentially related technologies.

thisisblurry 14y ago

Over the years, the one thing you can almost always count on from Microsoft when it comes to product announcements is their large and mostly useless chart of which version is going to have which features.

pippy 14y ago

This was great till I got to the renaming of Outlook to "Mail app". Outlook still has the largest market share and completely disregards HTML standards. As someone who often has to write templates for Outlook, it's a hassle to get it to work cross platform. I can just imagine the conversations trying to differentiate OS X mail.app and windows 8 Mail app now.

contextfree 14y ago
The Metro style Mail app isn't Outlook, it's a Metro style version of Windows Live Mail (which I think used to be called Outlook Express, not sure if it had any real relation to Office Outlook but if it did they diverged long ago). Outlook is still part of Office (and there have been no announcements about Metro style versions of Office apps).

chj 14y ago

for record, rebranding doesn't help windows mobile.

ishansharma 14y ago

5 Years Later: Microsoft Says Goodbye to Microsoft Account. I can bet this will happen.

dakrisht 14y ago

Thank God!

adharmad 14y ago

Every few years, Microsoft seems to dip its toes into single-signon for its services.......only unable to make it work seamlessly and replacing it with yet another solution.