3 ms·

As a follow up to this I’d like to ask any partially sighted or blind people the issues they currently experience using a LLM such as ChatGPT, Bard, Llama or ot

As a follow up to this I’d like to ask any partially sighted or blind people the issues they currently experience using a LLM such as ChatGPT, Bard, Llama or otherwise - both from a UI perspective and an API perspective.

blindgeek 3y ago
I'm blind, but I wouldn't know. I haven't used bard or gpt or any of that, and I don't plan on doing so. I thought about playing with GPT back in early 2023, when the hype really started picking up. But when I realized that they wanted my phone number, I noped out.
- jpsouth 3y ago
  Understood, thanks for the reply, blindgeek. An additional question, if you don’t mind answering (and there’s zero obligation to). How have you found accessibility has changed on the web over the years? We have many tools these days to assist but do you feel there’s been a notable improvement to what used to be in place?
  - blindgeek 3y ago
    I've been online in some form or other since 1993. Back in 1993, everything was basically accessible by default, because it was plain text. No, there has not been an improvement, and in fact, things have gotten worse in a lot of ways. Most of that is due to SPAs, and people who decide to use JavaScript when HTML widgets would suffice. I'm also involved with a text mode web browser project, [edbrowse](https://edbrowse.org/ https://edbrowse.org/). Ten years ago, it was feasible to use edbrowse for a great deal of online activity. For instance, I used it to make purchases from Amazon and other online stores. I could log into Paypal and send money with it. Then, in the mid 2010s or so, SPAs started becoming a thing and edbrowse broke on more and more sites. At this point, in 2024, I can't even use it to read READMEs on Github. And yes, I have accessibility trouble when using mainstream browsers too, all the time.
    - zardo 3y ago
      The DOJ takes the position that the ADA applies to websites and they've done something about it like six times. If only they would increase enforcement efforts about 10000 fold.
    - jpsouth 3y ago
      This is shocking, I can’t do much about the wider industry but I’m a huge advocate for accessibility on the web, I’ll continue being a pain in the arse to POs, PMs, devs and general management pushing for this kind of change. If everyone put their own loved ones in the situation of others, life would be different.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- smabie 3y ago
  Do you also nope out on other services (bank accounts, uber, etc) thst require a phone number? Somewhat genuinely curious because I don't understand what the issue is with giving your phone number?
  - blindgeek 3y ago
    As a rule, I tend to nope out on signing up for anything at all. I do have a Lyft account and of course the bank account both of those entities have a legitimate reason for contacting me so I don’t mind them having my phone number, but it’s really terrible how we’ve normalized giving phone numbers away. It has become so normalized that I’m on a nerd site trying to explain why I feel so strongly about giving away my personal data. Also nota beni, PII is a liability, not an asset.
devinprater 3y ago
I answer a lot of this on a forum post on the OpenAI forum [1], but basically, thank goodness for API's and screen reader addons that make use of them, because the only two AI's that are even remotely easy to use and accessible are Bard and Bing. [1] https://community.openai.com/t/how-are-blind-people-using-openai-technology/591018/ https://community.openai.com/t/how-are-blind-people-using-op...
miki123211 3y ago
Blind person here. GPT Vision is extremely sensitive and refuses to describe any content that it finds obscene. It's not just porn, its false positive rate is extremely high and it's not unusual for completely innocent images to be blocked.
- jpsouth 3y ago
  Thanks for your input! It’s interesting it’s oversensitive to this, I wonder what the safeguards are, and how strict they can be. This is a game changer I would imagine for anyone not able to see, so hopefully you get a better bit of kit very soon. If there’s anything you need additional support with, check out ‘Be My Eyes’ app and hopefully someone will be useful for you!
- davidd_ 3y ago
  Have you tried telling it that you are blind and need an accurate description? I've run into similar issues and this has helped (and it wouldn't even be a lie in your case). Also keep the prompt as vague as possible, no specific mention of people etc.

blindgeek 3y ago

I'm blind, but I wouldn't know. I haven't used bard or gpt or any of that, and I don't plan on doing so. I thought about playing with GPT back in early 2023, when the hype really started picking up. But when I realized that they wanted my phone number, I noped out.

jpsouth 3y ago
Understood, thanks for the reply, blindgeek. An additional question, if you don’t mind answering (and there’s zero obligation to). How have you found accessibility has changed on the web over the years? We have many tools these days to assist but do you feel there’s been a notable improvement to what used to be in place?
- blindgeek 3y ago
  I've been online in some form or other since 1993. Back in 1993, everything was basically accessible by default, because it was plain text. No, there has not been an improvement, and in fact, things have gotten worse in a lot of ways. Most of that is due to SPAs, and people who decide to use JavaScript when HTML widgets would suffice. I'm also involved with a text mode web browser project, [edbrowse](https://edbrowse.org/ https://edbrowse.org/). Ten years ago, it was feasible to use edbrowse for a great deal of online activity. For instance, I used it to make purchases from Amazon and other online stores. I could log into Paypal and send money with it. Then, in the mid 2010s or so, SPAs started becoming a thing and edbrowse broke on more and more sites. At this point, in 2024, I can't even use it to read READMEs on Github. And yes, I have accessibility trouble when using mainstream browsers too, all the time.
  - zardo 3y ago
    The DOJ takes the position that the ADA applies to websites and they've done something about it like six times. If only they would increase enforcement efforts about 10000 fold.
  - jpsouth 3y ago
    This is shocking, I can’t do much about the wider industry but I’m a huge advocate for accessibility on the web, I’ll continue being a pain in the arse to POs, PMs, devs and general management pushing for this kind of change. If everyone put their own loved ones in the situation of others, life would be different.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
smabie 3y ago
Do you also nope out on other services (bank accounts, uber, etc) thst require a phone number? Somewhat genuinely curious because I don't understand what the issue is with giving your phone number?
- blindgeek 3y ago
  As a rule, I tend to nope out on signing up for anything at all. I do have a Lyft account and of course the bank account both of those entities have a legitimate reason for contacting me so I don’t mind them having my phone number, but it’s really terrible how we’ve normalized giving phone numbers away. It has become so normalized that I’m on a nerd site trying to explain why I feel so strongly about giving away my personal data. Also nota beni, PII is a liability, not an asset.

devinprater 3y ago

I answer a lot of this on a forum post on the OpenAI forum [1], but basically, thank goodness for API's and screen reader addons that make use of them, because the only two AI's that are even remotely easy to use and accessible are Bard and Bing. [1] https://community.openai.com/t/how-are-blind-people-using-openai-technology/591018/ https://community.openai.com/t/how-are-blind-people-using-op...

miki123211 3y ago

Blind person here. GPT Vision is extremely sensitive and refuses to describe any content that it finds obscene. It's not just porn, its false positive rate is extremely high and it's not unusual for completely innocent images to be blocked.

jpsouth 3y ago
Thanks for your input! It’s interesting it’s oversensitive to this, I wonder what the safeguards are, and how strict they can be. This is a game changer I would imagine for anyone not able to see, so hopefully you get a better bit of kit very soon. If there’s anything you need additional support with, check out ‘Be My Eyes’ app and hopefully someone will be useful for you!
davidd_ 3y ago
Have you tried telling it that you are blind and need an accurate description? I've run into similar issues and this has helped (and it wouldn't even be a lie in your case). Also keep the prompt as vague as possible, no specific mention of people etc.